morphs of hatchlings

[naturesbeauty]

I have research a good bit on leapord gecko morphs, but I want to make sure I have written down the right info...to make it easier I am just going to list what I have and the male they are mating with. One of them thats gravid from him was given to me so I am still trying to figure out what she is.
The male is a eclipse het tremper albino
one of the female is a tremper albino which she laid 2 eggs tuesday
the other is a shtct she laid this morning.
my third one is the one idk I think she is a bold stripe but not sure.
Thank you

 

[matt1134]

do you have pics of the female in question?

 

[matt1134]

if you are trying to figure out what you will get with those pairings her is a great sight that has a great genetics calculator. http://www.lovegeckos.com/Genetics.aspx

 

[naturesbeauty]

http://geckoforums.net/picture.php?albumid=803&pictureid=6248
this is the link, which is to my profile on here, its the only pic I have in my album.
sorry it took so long to respond.

 

[naturesbeauty]

also thank you for the site. I will be looking at it tonight. If the picture isn't good enough let me know and I will send you another one.
thanks for the help

 

[M_surinamensis]

I've got a question, for those who may open and read this thread.

For those of you who spend all your free time learning about the animals you keep... for the hours of study and memorization and forethought you have put in so that you know the genetics of morphs backwards and forwards... for the time you spent waiting, searching ceaselessly until you could find the perfect pairing to produce the absolute best offspring possible... for all your dedication to perfect records and detailed lineages... for all the stress you have felt leading up to a decision, the weight of your impact on the captive population firmly in mind... for the care and attention and effort, for all the skull sessions and all the work you have put in...

How pissed off do you get when you see some chucklehead who's already paired up animals before they even know what the hell some of them are? How irritating is it to know that some potential customers somewhere will end up giving their money to the worst kind of indiscriminate, stumbling, bumbling, know-nothing, low-quality, market destroying, genetic obfuscater because the consumer simply doesn't know any better and the jackass is asking ten dollars less than you are? How righteously angry are you to know that all the perfect, hard earned knowledge and backing you would have supplied is going to go unheard, unheeded, replaced by the ignorance of a "breeder" that is supplying some low-quality, crap stock that will leave the end consumer with a bad experience keeping reptiles as pets?

 

[TokayKeeper]

sometimes...this is how I feel.

 

[Wowoklol]

I've got a question, for those who may open and read this thread.

For those of you who spend all your free time learning about the animals you keep... for the hours of study and memorization and forethought you have put in so that you know the genetics of morphs backwards and forwards... for the time you spent waiting, searching ceaselessly until you could find the perfect pairing to produce the absolute best offspring possible... for all your dedication to perfect records and detailed lineages... for all the stress you have felt leading up to a decision, the weight of your impact on the captive population firmly in mind... for the care and attention and effort, for all the skull sessions and all the work you have put in...

How pissed off do you get when you see some chucklehead who's already paired up animals before they even know what the hell some of them are? How irritating is it to know that some potential customers somewhere will end up giving their money to the worst kind of indiscriminate, stumbling, bumbling, know-nothing, low-quality, market destroying, genetic obfuscater because the consumer simply doesn't know any better and the jackass is asking ten dollars less than you are? How righteously angry are you to know that all the perfect, hard earned knowledge and backing you would have supplied is going to go unheard, unheeded, replaced by the ignorance of a "breeder" that is supplying some low-quality, crap stock that will leave the end consumer with a bad experience keeping reptiles as pets?

Eh I had a big thing typed up but I'll just summize. I usually agree wholeheartedly, but I really don't think you are competing with the types you posted about unless you are advertising on craigslist with $30-40 "rehoming fees". Those types aren't selling many lizards around sites like this I can almost guarantee. If they sell any at all. I'm just going to leave it at that because I don't really think this is the place to have this discussion

naturesbeauty, what do you plan on getting out of this breeding? What made you want to breed your lizards? What are you going to do with the offspring if any hatch? Have you bred before? What makes you think you are ready to handle this responsibility?

 

[M_surinamensis]

I really don't think you are competing with the types you posted about unless you are advertising on craigslist with $30-40 "rehoming fees". Those types aren't selling many lizards around sites like this I can almost guarantee.

While marketing strategies tend to target a given type of consumer and there's a place for average animals, possible hets and mixed genetic lottery tickets, I'd argue that the fact such a sub-category as "craigslist breeder" even exists is inherently negative.

While there are some (few) potential consumers who wouldn't buy an animal if the animal wasn't cheap, the majority of them* are simply naive to the meaning of their choices. Naivety wouldn't be a problem if all of the suppliers were scrupulously honest and responsible, things would be explained, selections and choices would be carefully presented, consumers would be educated... and the crap animals, the low quality booby prizes, the tricks and the lies and the misrepresentations wouldn't exist to begin with. Every dollar spent on suboptimal trash animals** produced by people who couldn't find their ass with both hands and a map but shoved males and females together anyway, means one less dollar spent with people who have worked hard to produce animals the right way. Ethically, responsibly, intelligently.

While I don't think that ideal will ever quite be achieved, it's still something worth working towards. Constantly worked towards, maximize the good done by the industry as a whole, minimize the bad. Protect the consumers, encourage success for the people who deserve it. Don't shrug and think, "They would have just bought it off craigslist anyway." The market for garbage may never be eliminated but it can certainly be reduced.

So when someone comes along like the original poster here... guy doesn't know how mendelian genetics work or the traits of his own animals, shoving mystery girls that he was "just given" in to mate with his male... he shouldn't be encouraged to do anything except destroy the eggs and make more responsible decisions in the future.


*the faceless, nameless, voiceless masses who never find their way to a message board or a herp society meeting, but just keep a pet or two in quiet obscurity

**the morph market alters the definitions here, I do not mean normals. I love normals. I like wild phenotypes a lot more than these captive bred mutations. If one if going to work with mutations though, then there are new thresholds for responsible pairings.

 

[Wowoklol]

I get what you are saying. And its obviously a problem. Lets take a look at my favorite dog breed American Pit Bull Terriers. These same people you are describing have these animals on a fast track to be becoming completely outlawed in the US due to irresponsible breeding and rehoming practices. The "craigslist breeders" in the dogs case tend to stick around a bit longer for that market is a bit more lucrative sadly. I feel in the case of geckso here, with such small clutches, and number of quality breeders/animals available, that these people redirect rather quickly reducing their actual effect on any markets or gene pools. Their cost/benefit analysis shows them pretty quickly that this is not a good way to make quick money. Especially if they don't do it right. I'm not trying to stick up for them in any way, nor do I think we should just ignore it. I think a more subtle and engaging approach might be more beneficial. Launching an opening salvo like that can send them scattering never to return.. Without even having a chance to think about the implications, but lost on how "snobby" our "forum full of jerks" is.. I feel pity for the animals they keep and those they attempt to create. Yeah I dunno.. Keep up the good work! haha