need help with morphs

[crazyp]

i got 2 new leos and i need to know what morphs they are.
someone said one was a Super Hypo Tangerine an the other was a lavendar Mack Snow. i just wound wount to knoe what someone else thinks.
this is aurora

an this is destro

think you for looking

 

[Thorgecko707]

Hypo tang and a jungle snow?

 

[triplegex]

The second one looks normal to me...

 

[richardrojas]

I will said that both are Mack Snow. Just need to wait to breed them and prove it out. The first hatchling that I produced (1st season) was a Hypo Mack Snow and looked similar to your first one when it start getting its colors. Second one the a Jungle Mack Snow that also starts getting some yellow on it.

 

[TokayKeeper]

The 2nd one is not a jungle, based upon the fact that is has normal banding of the tail. A jungle must have both abnormal body and tail banding, with the tail having either an abnormal or fully striped pattern. Furthermore, jungles typically retain some bold patterning (=connected spotting) from their ontogenesis (=change from hatchling pattern to juvenile pattern to adult pattern). I'd classify it as a normal with abnormal neck ring and first band. Most likely it will be normally spotted as an adult just based upon what spotting is developing already.

 

[richardrojas]

from http://www.reptileculture.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2358
"Jungle
When you start breeding the aberrant pattern geckos together you will eventually get what is called a “jungle” pattern.This pattern is should be defined as having a broken neck band along with a high degree of aberrant patterning to the back. The key is the broken neck band.
*Breeding 2 aberrant geckos together dose not always give you a jungle. You can’t look at as a recessive trait."

From leopard gecko wiki
What Defines a Jungle?

"A Jungle Leopard Gecko is a Leopard Gecko whose body and tail pattern are irregular. The body pattern will have broken or incomplete bands; the tail will not be banded, and will feature broken or absent bands. "

It seems that there is always different opinion about what is what.

 

[TokayKeeper]

It seems that there is always different opinion about what is what.

I base mine off the originator of the trait, who now has them re-badged as "bandits". Me thinks Leo Gecko Wiki does similarly! Furthermore, I have to disagree with not looking at it recessively. The jungle/stripe genetics have been hashed over and over and no one really seems to know what's going on, but I can, from my own breedings, tell you that breeding hets back to each other will produce jungles...or at least jungles which can be traced back to the originator I hint at above.

Additionally, you just hatched one out and posted it in the Show Off Your Leos forum under "Welcome to the Jungle", which I might add is a very nice, classic example of the trait. Here's some others, ones I've owned or produced over the years.

Pictures 1 & 2 are the same gecko and she was purchased from the originator of the jungle trait. The 2nd photo is from his website. She also playedf a big part in the jungle Bell albinos as I gave her to Kelli many years ago. The 3rd is a female I purchased locally back in '99. The 4th is a jungle Tremper (aka originator I refer to) albino whose grandparents are a Tremper albino male X normal jungle female. The parents were 2 normal looking double hets. The 5th and 6th photos are siblings to the jungle albino, with the 6th photo showing ontogenesis.

If I have to, I'll even try to find either the 1995, 96, or 97 issue of REPTILES magazine, where the jungle trait is defined.

Page 36 of the 1998 publication of The Leopard Gecko Manual states:

'Jungle' leopard gecko, a morph characterized by an irregular dorsal pattern and an unringed tail. Photo by Ron Tremper. Center for Reptile and Amphibian Propagation.

Page 68 of same book state:

Jungle = A highly variable aberrant gecko of irregular, asymmetrical, dark body blotches with a non-ringed tail.

The jungle phase has dark bold spots on the limbs and it is from the pattern mutation that the first fully striped geckos came from. The jungle phase is dominant over that of being striped.

 

[crazyp]

another thing is aurora (the first gecko) has a big blue spot on its belly can anyone tell me what that is???

 

[richardrojas]

@ Tokay Keeper, I am not saying that I am wright and you are wrong I was just adding 2 different source in which one said something and the other one said the opposite and I respect your opinion since you have a lot more experience than I do. My personal opinon after reading the Manual of Leopard Gecko the one published in 2005 is that is not a normal since doesn't fulfill the characteristic of a normal. The second thing that comes to my mind is aberrant (that are not mentioned in the manual) but since I saw the broken neck band thought about a jungle.

Thanks for your comment about my jungles, they are basically the first jungles that I ever hatched. None of the parents are jungles but since the patternless stripe of raptor came from those lines and dad was a bold stripe cross that was what I hatched.