new gecko is really lethargic

[jo57]

About your leo:
- Sex Unsure
- Age & Weight unsure
- How long have you owned your leo 5 days
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend) reptile expo

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo only held when putting in cage for the first time
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. it has acted the same since I purchased it
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. unsure
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal)
- When was the last time he/she went hasn't gone since purchase
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on
When first purchased I brought the lizard home and put into it's cage that was already set up and warm. The gecko went into one of the hides and stayed there for 2 days. It doesn't move much during the day or night. I have put crickets in the cage a few times and the lizard has not shown any interest in eating. I pulled it out of the cage last night and it didn't try to get out of my hand at all. The lizard started shedding on Monday and still has unshed skin on its tail and arms. Over all the lizard is very lethargic and doesn't look like he is going to make it. I have to pull the crickets out when it doesn't eat them because he will just lay there while they walk on him and nibble on him.
Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size 10 gallon tank
- Type (ex. glass tank) glass tank
- Type of substrate calcium sand
- Hides, how many, what kind 2 pvc pipes
B) Heating
- Heat source heat lamp
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) hot side 88 degrees, shaded side not measured
- Method of regulating heat source
- What are you using to measure your temps thermometer
- Do you have any lights (describe) day and night lamps, both 75 watt
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) 0
- Describe health, or previous problems

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) crickets I put three in the cage and none were eaten
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) just placing live crickets in the cage
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands)
- What are you gut loading food with

 

[jo57]

I think tomorrow I'll try getting rid of the lights and getting a heat pad to go underneath. I'll see if that sparks some life in this little guy.

 

[Neon Aurora]

I see several things that could be improved.

1) Calcium sand is not a suitable substrate for a leopard gecko, especially if it is hunting crickets. Leopard geckos often become impacted and die from ingesting sand. Calcium sand is especially dangerous because the calcium content encourages them to ingest it. Hunting crickets on it also increases the chances your gecko will ingest sand and become impacted.
2) You should remove the light and get a UTH, as you said. That light looks much too bright and could be causing stress to your gecko. Aside from that, a 75 watt on a 10 gallon is probably making it much too hot in there. If the 88 degrees you gave it the air temperature, than it is much too hot. Night bulbs are also not recommended because leopard geckos are able to see it. Being able to see it messes with their circadian rhythm and is not healthy.
3) You should had a humid hide. You can make one out of a tupperware. They're very important to help with shedding and hydration.

Are you planning on dusting the gecko's food? If so, with what?

What are you measuring your temperatures with? Floor temperature is what is important, so you should use a digital thermometer with a probe or a temperature gun.

When you get a UTH, you will need a way to regulate it. Either a thermostat or lamp dimmer.

I wouldn't expect the gecko to eat after just 5 days. Many take a couple weeks to settle in. Correcting your husbandry will also help with that. If the tank is too hot, that could contribute to symptoms like lethargy.

The left over shed on its tail and arms needs to be removed. You can do this by using warm water and a q-tip or your finger nails (I just use my finger nails).

If the lethargy continues after your set up is appropriate, a vet visit may be in order.

 

[jo57]

Thanks for the tips. When I owned them prior, I had a male and female in a 55 gallon aquarium so I guess that gave them enough room to get out of the light. I am going to dump out the sand tonight, install a UTH, I got a piece of slate to put on the floor and made a couple of new hides. I am getting rid of the heat bulbs too.

 

[Neon Aurora]

Terrarium size is definitely a factor when it comes to the over-head lights. If I were to use a light, it would be a soft fluorescent tube light. That way, it wouldn't make the air too hot, it wouldn't be crazy bright, and I could provide dark hides and shaded areas for the gecko to get away from the light.

Anyways, I think you have a good plan. Update us on how the gecko is doing once your husbandry is fixed. =)

 

[jo57]

This has been an weekend project. First I got a Zilla heat pad designed for 5-10 gallon aquariums and a Zoo-Med 500R thermostat. I removed the sand and added a terrarium mat and a piece of tile. I welded together some caves for him. I put the tile on top of the mat and put the hide on it. I got a thermometer and stuck it on the tile next to his cave. After adjusting the thermostat from medium all of the way to high, the temperature on the thermometer never went over 70. I felt the tile by hand a few times and it felt warm, but not really warm. I ended up cutting the mat to fit around the tile so I could get the tile directly on the glass over the heating mat. I also replaced the 75 watt light with a 13 watt compact fluorescent repti sun bulb. With this the temperature never went over 75. Today I flipped the lid around to put the light over the tile. I swapped the compact fluorescent bulb for a blue 60 watt bulb. this got the temperature to stay around 85. I think I am just going to get a ceramic heat emitter to get through the night. I didn't mention that the cage is in the basement and it can get cold. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

 

[jo57]

 

[Neon Aurora]

That's looking good!

Just two things. I think it's really important to measure the temperature of the actual floor. Proper temperatures is probably the single most important thing when it comes to keeping leopard geckos. I would really recommend a digital thermometer with a probe. ZooMed makes a pretty good one for $10. The floor temps on the warm side could be 90 degrees. The temps on the cool side should not get above 75.

Secondly, you should add a humid hide. In the wild, leopard geckos are known to hide during the day in humid cracks in the rocks and come out at night when it's cool. Providing a humid area is important for healthy shedding and for proper hydration.

It's coming along great, though. Good job. =)

 

[jo57]

I was looking to add the humid hide but I was more looking to get the temperature right first. I only was doing that based off of the fact that he did shed last week. I was able to get all of the old shed off of him as well.

 

[jo57]

I added the humid hide on Monday. I still can't get this little guy to eat anything. I've been giving him various sized crickets and he won't even look at them. Last night I went out and got some mealworms in case that was what he was used to eating. Put 8 in a bowl last night before turning off the light for the night and there were still 8 in the bowl this morning. I saw +++++ is having a dollar per gallon sale on tanks. I think I am going to grab a 40 gallon tank for him. This way I hopefully can give him a better variance in temperature as well as more hiding spots.

 

[Neon Aurora]

I wouldn't expect him to eat anything yet. You've only had him for a little over a week, and with his tank being all changed around, I expect he's not comfortable enough to eat anything yet.

Is his lethargy any better?

I would actually recommend against getting a bigger tank yet. Young leopard geckos can become more stressed in large areas. If you want to get him a larger tank that is on sale now, you should wait until he is an adult to put him in it.

I'm not too worried about him not eating because he looks plump, which suggests that he was eating before you got him, which suggests that he was not sick either.

I think the best thing you can do is make sure your temps are correct (digital thermometer with probe. The dials are not going to measure them accurately) and leave him alone to settle. Don't handle, continue to offer food, and wait to see how he does. If he seems sick (lethargy continues and he starts to drop weight), he may need a vet.

 

[jo57]

I never see him. Even checking periodically at night he never seems to leave his caves. The few times I've handled him he seems fine. I pulled him out yesterday because I had to remove his hides to get some crickets out of his cage. I held him for about twenty minutes. He kept climbing up my shirt and seemed to move well. I will just leave him be to see how he does. Thanks again for all of your assistance.

 

[jo57]

I wanted to give an update on how the little guy is doing. I decided not to put him in the 40 gallon cage and went with a 20 gallon long cage. I got the heating pad designed for the 30-40 gallon tanks and a rougher tile (he was slipping on the smoother one). I had to put a little bit of sand under the tile because it didn't sit flat on the bottom and I didn't want the gap because it would be a good hiding spot for bugs. I have a sand mat for the rest of the cage. 2 hides on the cool side. 1 hide and a humid hide on the warm side. The tile gets to 95 in some spots. (I bought a laser thermometer) and the cool side is usually 75 degrees. I got rid of the lights since the temperature is correct now without them. I have 2 cages underneath of his with infrared lights so there is a little light in the area at night time. He is now eating and active at night. I really appreciate all of the advice from Neon Aurora. I think this guy is going to be okay now. I will post some pictures of the new cage and the little guy himself ( I have yet to name him).

 

[Neon Aurora]

I'm glad to hear he's doing better! From what you describe, your set up sounds perfect now. =) Can't wait to see those pictures.

 

[jo57]

 

[jo57]

Here are some pictures of the gecko and his new cage. I took over a corner of my children's playroom hence the room decorations.

 

[Neon Aurora]

Looks good. =) The only thing I would suggest is filling in some of the empty space. A 20 long is pretty big for a gecko that size, and he may feel more comfortable moving around in the cage (and therefor thermoregulating properly) if there was more cover.

 

[jo57]

Do you mean more hides, or just more rocks, branches, things to climb on, etc? I will be at a reptile expo tomorrow and will have a lot of options to choose from.

 

[Neon Aurora]

It's entirely up to you. Anything that allows to gecko to remain covered while it moves from one end of the tank to the next will be fine. I personally like twisty branches and tall grass-looking decorations to fill space. It looks desert-y and branches (especially the twisty ones that make little arches when placed right) provide a place for the gecko to both go under if it just wants to move around unseen and also a place to perch on top of for whenever it wants to do that (I see it occasionally in my normals) while the grass decorations are just aesthetically pleasing and taller than the gecko so it feels safer moving around. Rocks are also good as long as they're stable and don't present a hazard.

Be creative. =) Making a great gecko habitat is fun. I'm sure you'll find lots of cool options at the reptile expo. I'm jealous, it's been so long since I've been to a reptile expo!

If you look around in the "Housing" section, there are many threads on cool stuff people have done with their set ups. There's also the big "Show Off Your Cages" thread that is just a compilation of everyone's tanks that can help give you some ideas. http://geckoforums.net/f127-housing/22299.htm