new leo, lots of questions!

[elliotuk]

Hi, I have had a bearded dragon for 3 months and recently decided i had to have a leopard gecko as well! I did a fair amount of research before buying but now that I have it i still have some questions if anyone can help.....

Anyway the only place in my city that had one was pets at home, and the only one they had looked a little skinny. The salewoman actually said that it is a little on the thin side especially the tail (where they store their fat apprently?). Heres a few photos, what do you think does he look a bit skinny? hes 4 months old apprently.







So I have to make sure its eating but since i got it home 24 hours ago it hasnt eaten anything as far as i can see. I have put a bowl of mealworms in and perhaps its eating them when im not watching, but I have also put a few crickets in and it totally ignores them as the crickets run around his head! This just surprises me because im used to my dragon......he gets very excited when im about to give him crikets and runs around chasing them like a nutter. So i expected this from my leo, but the leo totally ignores them even when they crawl right past his nose. Is this normal and he might eat them later or should i worry? Also is it ok just to leave a couple of crickets in the terrarium? i was told that i shouldnt do that with dragons as the crickets can nibble away at the dragon while hes sleeping, is this the case with geckos too?

I have some nutrabal calcium balancer and multivitamin powder......is it enough to sprinkle them over the mealworms and crickets? Or do i need a seperate calcium bowl in there?

I am using a heatmat under the terrarium which is a exo terra 45x45x45cm desert kit one. the temperature is generally around 35c......is this ok or a little too hot?

I bought some kind of fibre substrate that you put the block in water and it expands massively, but i found this to be very messy and seeing as its full of water its left a very soggy base for the gecko to walk around and he has it all stuck to his underside when i take him out (you can see the bits stuck to him and on my hand in the photo). Is there a substrate I can use that is safe to use but also looks nice as i dont want to use something crappy looking like paper towel or repti carpet ? what about aspen or can that cause impaction?

Do i need any lighting in there? the kit comes with 2 daylight bulbs but the saleswoman says I dont have to use them, is this correct? I prefer to put moonlight bulbs in there and have them on during the night. And i take it that UVB isnt necessary unlike with my dragon?

thats all the questions i can think of for now so any help appreciated, and sorry for the wall of text!

 

[Pinky81]

Eck! I'll be honest with ya I would have NEVER paid for that Leo! Your guys is seriously skinny. Was she feeding it? And if she was then maybe you need to take him to the vet for a fecal. It is completely normal for a Leo to go off food after a move, thus the reason why you don't want to buy one that looks like that! I'll be honest you should take him back to the lady and get a refund.

If you do choose to try and save this gecko then you should probably take it to a vet, take the loose dirt out of the viv (NOT GOOD FOR LEOS) so you can actually see him poop, plus decrease his possiblity to get impacted. I do not see any digital temp probes in the viv so Im not sure how accurate your temps really are.
Sorry to say but paper towel is the safest and most economical way to go....the other option is slate tile. But that moss needs to go, Leo's are not suppose to be housed in anything moist, they are from hot dry areas like the middle east, not the rainforest, so that cocofiber will cause resp. problems.

Also whats up with your water bowl? It looks like it contains milk!?!
I suggest you read some of the caresheets found on this site...lots of information in them- http://geckoforums.net/articles.php?c=115
First and foremost vet trip or refund. Sorry you found a shaddy seller!

 

[elliotuk]

thanks for answers, argh looks like ive done everything wrong then :/

the digital temp probe is hidden within the substrate, just above the heatmat, so should be fairly accurate, is 35-36c ok?

i was told by the lady in the shop to keep a box with damp moss in because they like to go in their to shed their skin or something?

ok will get rid of the coco fibre, you think beech woodchips are safer?

the water bowl definately has water in it, i think the flash from the camera made it look white lol.

 

[AMoriarty]

i was told by the lady in the shop to keep a box with damp moss in because they like to go in their to shed their skin or something?

ok will get rid of the coco fibre, you think beech woodchips are safer?

My gecko took a few days to get on a normal feeding cycle again after I got her from Beantown Reptiles (my awesome local gecko breeder!) but your gecko is seriously really skinny--it's not just his tail, it's his body too. His body should be fatter--there should be some "meat on his bones." I woul suggest taking him to a herp vet if he's not eating, because this guy really can't afford to go longer without food of some sort. It is possible he has internal problems too, like parasites.

I use damp moss in my moist hide, but some people prefer paper towels. There was a poll on this in the housing forum a while back, I think, so you can look and see what people recommend.

Definitely get rid of the coco fibre and do not use beech woodchips either, or sand, or any kind of loose substrate! Leos are a dry desert species and that wood chip or bark stuff stuff holds moisture and gets moldy, plus the gecko can eat it accidentally and get an impaction that may kill them. I would recommend something flat and easy to clean like paper towel, repticarpet (which is what I use now) or something like vinyl tile or ceramic tile (which is also easy to clean and conducts heat well; I plan on switching when I get some $ saved up because somebody here convinced me it was better than the repticarpet).

 

[Jellybean]

That geckos head is HUGE compared to his body

 

[elliotuk]

hmmm ok have spent an hour cleaning out all the coca fibre it was soggy as hell not good!

for now i have just put a dish cloth in there until i order some repticarpet or something.

so now it looks like this:



its still not eating though, i think i will try and take it back to the shop, i dont want to be burdened with vets bills when it shouldnt have been sold to me like that anyway.

also is there meant to be a temperature gradient in the terrarium? the heatmat coveres about 2/3 of the underside so theres a slightly colder side if he needs....

 

[Pinky81]

he's not going to eat with all the changes your making, thats why it best to do the research ahead of time and have it all set up before bringing your leo home. Also purchasing a gecko that is healthy is important because they do go off food when first moved.

Again the questions you are asking are all located in these caresheets I urge you to read through them.

http://geckoforums.net/articles.php?c=115

 

[elliotuk]

thanks, have read the articles now.

Have also taken back the gecko to the shop, they gave me a refund and now i have ordered another one from a different shop so hopefully i'll get a nice healthy one next time!

couple more questions though:

the guy that i have ordered another one from is a reptile specialist and said that i should not be feed any young lizard mealworms because if they are not properly chewed and killed by the lizard then the mealworm can nibble and even eat through the inside of the lizard's stomach. Apprently he has seen it happen a few times.... would you guys agree with that?

Also the heatmat i have is too large and covers 2/3 of the underside of the terrarium. Is it possible to cut these down at all? or will cutting it at all break the circuit and stop it working completely?

thanks

 

[Pokersnake]

That meal worm thing is a myth. Completely false.

As for your heat mat, I would not suggest cutting it. It would probably make it unusable. If you think it's too big, you can try returning it to a store (which probably won't work) or you can adjust it so it is only covering 1/3 to 1/2 of the bottom of your tank. Yeah, some will be hanging off the edge, but it's better than nothing for now.

 

[IslaReina]

Yeah, mealworms do not eat through the inside of a gecko's stomach, a huge myth. Who did you buy from that told you that?

I really do recommend tiles, they keep heat nicely, look nice, and won't get the gecko's toenails caught.

 

[Pinky81]

Oh gezzz don't cut the mat LOL not unless you want a ShOcKiNg Experience

Mealies will NOT eat through a Gecko's stomach...nor will supers! Did you pay for this Leo yet? Never pay for something till you see it. And when you go to pick it up look at the Leo and note any issues like very Skinny tail..eye issues, sores around the mouth. Check for old shed on toes and tail.

IMO Leo babies should not leave breeder till at least 15grams this ensures the Little guy has enough body weight to get throught the stress of the move.

If anything with the baby leo looks off don't be afraid to walk away!

Good Luck with the new baby, and I honestly have found papertowels to be the best thing since buttered bread!!!! Easy to clean, allows for great heat transfer, won't cause your Leo any health issues, economical and honestly
from afar looks almost like a layer of sand Get your Viv all set up and running including the UTH and use your probe to check temps and make sure all is sound and good to go before your Leo comes home. I would set it all up and let it run the week before your leo comes home so you can tell if it gets too hot during different times of day or too cold during others.


EDIT: I added two pics of my recent hatchling. Twigg is Hmmm about 3 weeks old now and is 7grams...notice how nice and round the tail looks. You Leo that you had the tail was stick thin and almost spikey. Hope the pictures help you see the difference between a health young baby and a not so healthy older leo!
Good Luck!

 

[elliotuk]

the original skinny gecko i got from pets at home, not sure if you have that in the states? but in the UK its a major chain, but they generally just sell rabbits and hamsters and the salesmen are pretty clueless about reptiles.

the place where i am getting the new gecko in a few days is a shop called "neon gecko" in Glasgow, Scotland. The guy breeds all sorts of lizards so he supposed to be an expert.
it was he who told me about the mealworms, he said he has seen mealworms that have eaten their way out of the side of a beardie before! Apprently its ok when the lizard is older, but when they are babies and dont have teeth yet then they dont always kill the mealworm and it can still be alive inside their stomach.

He also said that he has lost geckos and beardies to impaction when using sand but has never lost one to impaction when using beech wood chips.

i managed to cut down the side of the mat which is just plastic (not the actual circuit part) this enabled me to move the mat a couple of cm over so it now pretty much only covers half the underside, i also managed to reduce the temp a few degrees by not fixing it flush to the underside with tape, and just allowing to sit loose on the table underneath so its about 1cm under the glass bottom. now my temp is around 32c on the hot side so a bit better.

 

[BadKelpie]

I'm with you on the paper towels, but I used them anyway when I got mine because I wanted her to be as safe as possible since she was so young (she wasn't much older than a hatchling). Now that she's a little older and no longer seems so fragile, I changed her substrate. I put sand down, and put rocks over the sand, some big rocks, some small between the big ones. Looks awesome, natural, and not boring (and safe since the rocks are too big to eat and she can't get to the sand). She poops in the same spot so I just put a small piece of paper towel down in that spot and change it daily.

I use crickets, they seem healthier to me than mealworms.

 

[elliotuk]

EDIT: moved to a new thread

 

[M_surinamensis]

the place where i am getting the new gecko in a few days is a shop called "neon gecko" in Glasgow, Scotland. The guy breeds all sorts of lizards so he supposed to be an expert.

Provided he's being quoted correctly, he is not an expert. He is the opposite of an expert. He is giving you misinformation and bad advice.

it was he who told me about the mealworms, he said he has seen mealworms that have eaten their way out of the side of a beardie before!

No, he hasn't. He may have seen some eat their way into a beardie that has already died, but they definitely did not eat their way out.

Apprently its ok when the lizard is older, but when they are babies and dont have teeth yet then they dont always kill the mealworm and it can still be alive inside their stomach.

They're born with teeth. A mealworm would not survive being swallowed even if they weren't chewed a couple times first.

Get a new reptile "expert" because your current one is broken.

 

[roger]

thanks, have read the articles now.

Have also taken back the gecko to the shop, they gave me a refund and now i have ordered another one from a different shop so hopefully i'll get a nice healthy one next time!

couple more questions though:

the guy that i have ordered another one from is a reptile specialist and said that i should not be feed any young lizard mealworms because if they are not properly chewed and killed by the lizard then the mealworm can nibble and even eat through the inside of the lizard's stomach. Apprently he has seen it happen a few times.... would you guys agree with that?

Also the heatmat i have is too large and covers 2/3 of the underside of the terrarium. Is it possible to cut these down at all? or will cutting it at all break the circuit and stop it working completely?

thanks

Do yourself a favor and return the second leo you got from the second breeder.He hasnt got a clue what he is talking about.