New to reptiles so got a few question

[warhawk77]

First off not sure this is the right place but it is a general question.

My son and I are both wanting to get a Leopard Gecko. This will be our first reptiles, my wife got a Bearded Dragon and that got our son hooked he wants a lizard also. But we don't want to have another huge tank in the house right now so we are looking at the Geckos and I know the large pet store chains aren't the best but we would rather spend $20-30 each starting off then $125. If we enjoy them then later we could go with the more pricey ones, but we just want pets right now.


My questions are
I keep hearing the colors we would be picking will change, so you won't know the colors until they are older. When do the colors set in or is this just a load of crap?

Is there a difference in the color of leopard geckos? Do some colors like handling better, eat more or less, live longer, or more sensitive to the sun? Or is it just colors?

Thanks I'm sure I will have more questions as I keep researching them.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Keep in mind that the entire thing for a leo is expensive. The enclosure itself isn't that bad (20 long would be best size and runs about $30, I think), but then you also have supplements, hides, bowls, substrate, UTH, overhead heat if you want (I would recommend), digital thermometers, a thermostat, and food. You can cut down on costs by using paper towels as a substrate and plastic containers as hides, though it won't look as nice. Also remember that sometimes they do get sick and require vet care. Just stuff to keep in mind when considering cost.

The colors a leo is born with aren't the same as they will be as an adult. The most common 'color,' or morph, for a leo is a high yellow (also called a normal). Here's a good picture to compare the adult and juvi versions:

The morphs are all pretty much the same in temperament, longevity, etc. The only exception would be Enigmas, which have a neurological problem, so best to avoid those. Geckos with lighter colored eyes such as red will be more sensitive to light, just like any other animals.

~Maggot

 

[warhawk77]

Thanks for the info.

Right now we have a few tanks two 10g and one 20g long. The 20g long tank is set up with a under tank heater and two over head lights. I'm trying the under tank heater to make sure the temp holds at 90 before we get the Leo. Better to be sure then have one and risk not being able to heat it. We have food dishes and hides already been picking up store bought ones as we find them we like. And as my wives bearded Dagon out grows the smaller stuff we will using those for Leo's also. My plan is to build hides out of foam and make a desert environment. We are going to use paper towels or newspaper at first but get reptile carpet once we get the hides built.

Part of me wants to get 2 females and 1 male for that 20g tank but another part says to use a 10g for the male. Also buying juvilles means I might get a male or female so better to have the tanks set up just in case.


I like the spotted ones and from what I'm seeing those are not the ones in depand so might be harder to come by. Did find a local guy that has what he calls "Mack snow" and those should be white with black spots so excited about those.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Two lights? What are the temps on the cool side? You don't want to overheat the enclosure. And, just to be clear, you'll need the hides (and the moist hide) before you get the gecko, even if you only use temporary ones.

A 20 long is definitely way too small for three geckos. I would say a 20 long is minimum for one gecko. Leos are not social creatures and don't enjoy being housed together. People do it just for their own enjoyment or to save space. There's always a chance of bullying and fights, so to reduce the risk, each gecko should have their own hot hide, cool hide, and humid hide. Fitting all of that while still leaving a decent amount of floor space in a 20 long is unlikely. You also absolutely can't house the sexes together as juveniles, or you'll put the females at huge risk for becoming gravid way too young, which could prove fatal. It's also not totally unheard of for males to attack, mangle, or even kill females. Personally, though, I wouldn't recommend housing any geckos together, especially since you're new. There are a plethora of potential problems because it's just not natural for them to be in such a small space with another gecko all the time.

~Maggot

 

[warhawk77]

Sorry I was unclear I'm only using the under tank to heat with. The others are extras that came with the tank. I do have hides right now so if the heat holds (it's at 91 and holds at last check) the tank is ready.

From my research I know males can't be together and only house ones that are the same size together. But that is assuming they are getting along and no bullying.

On the tank size I will keep looking but every place I have found suggest a 10g for a Leo and several places said 20g works for 3. Now they where unclear if it was a 20g long or high so I picked the long to give more floor space and less tall as they don't need the head room. I guess everyone has there thoughts on space and I don't want to cramp anyone so I will keep reading on that. One breeder online has 5 Leo in a 24"x16" tub and that sounds really small.

But as I said I'm not a expert so trying to learn with out risking any Leo life or well being. Don't want to learn the hard way.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Good job testing your setup before getting a gecko! Most UTH run hotter than 90. Often using slate or tile as a substrate with play sand (NOT calcium sand) under it to conduct the heat can get it to the right temperature at the level the gecko will be at. Some UTHs run really hot and need a thermostat or dimmer to make them safe for geckos.

Most morphs do have similar temperments but they do have a range of tolerant to super skittish. Some breeders breed for temperment and others just for color. You can ask them but seeing and handling the geckos first hand is a better way to know. Younger geckos are almost always more jumpy and less friendly than bigger geckos. Their jumpiness fades as they get older. Albinos are definitely light sensitive and will have a harder time being kept in bright environments or being taken out into them even for short periods.

IMO juvenile leopard geckos of opposite sexes should not really be kept together. They can (and will) breed ASAP and often that is too young for them to adequately handle the stress of egg laying. If you decide to get more than one gecko it's almost always a good idea to have a backup enclosure ready in case you need to separate them. In order to be kept together they should be within 20% of each others weight. Any bigger size difference and they can hurt or even eat each other. You'll also want to quarantine them separately for 30-90 days to make sure they are eating well and don't have any disease or parasites to transfer to one another.

On these forums I've seen a lot of pet store geckos that are sickly and die within a few months of purchase. There are also lots of good stories of ones that did fine. Make sure you know what a healthy young gecko looks like before venturing out to buy one. Those that are underweight or have shedding issues in the store can turn out to have underlying problems such as parasites or disease and buying a healthy gecko to begin with can save you a lot of heartache.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

The risk for bullying exists for all the genders, not just males. Again, they're not social creatures and really don't like being kept crammed into a tank together. And it's not always readily apparent to someone who doesn't recognise the signs until it's too late.

Sorry, but three in a 20 gallon is just too small. A lot of the information on the internet isn't the best and is just the absolute, bare minimum. If you fail to consider the space needed for the hides, maybe, but, again, you should have 3 hides per gecko. You can't fit 9 hides in a 20 long. It just can't be done.

IMO a 10 gallon is too small for an adult, but the biggest issue with it is a proper temp gradient. Keeping the warm side warm enough and the cool side cool enough is difficult in such a small enclosure unless you eliminate overhead heat. It also doesn't allow much room for walking around with all three hides and water bowl inside.

Now maybe it's just that I really, really don't believe in giving animals the bare minimum, and it makes me a bit anal. Yes, one can survive in a 10 gallon, and three might survive in a 20 long (if they don't fight, bully, or become gravid too young and die), but they won't thrive. They will do much better in a 20 long by themselves. They won't be stressed, they won't have to compete for the best hiding spots, and they will have plenty of room to move around. Some people don't care to provide all of that for their geckos, but I think it's important to do the best we can. That's my opinion, and people can do what they want with their geckos.

~Maggot

 

[warhawk77]

I have some slate over the UTH now but I might take it out. If I do I will be putting a dimmer and/or thermostat on on it for sure. I have one of the heat guns so I can test the different areas to make sure its all safe. That thing was well worth the money.

I have lots of extra fish tanks so if I pick up some more UTH I could have a few back-ups in-case they won't get along or for quarantine tanks. I would rather just put them together right away to get to know each other but I know that isn't the safe way to do it so the rational part of me will win out.

Thanks for the info on different sizes I keep reading not to have a big difference but no one said how much was too much for a 20% is pretty close and that was what I was thinking

 

[Kristi23]

I don't keep geckos together unless they're breeding. I would think two would work in a 20L, but probably not more. Try to fit in 3-4 hides. Most breeders keep geckos in racks. The tubs generally only have room for a moist/laying hide and they do fine. Make sure you separate them if there is any fighting or if one is gaining more weight than the other one. It's great that you're doing so much research before purchasing (I would't buy from a store though). Good luck!

 

[warhawk77]

Well I got home tonight and found out I lost my 20g long tank.

My wife wants to move her bearded dragon into it until it gets bigger. We have planed on building him a encloser 4'x2'x2' in a month or two. But now I might need to get it done sooner. But it does leave the 55 gallon tank open for leos if I want.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

My thought on 20% is just a ball park figure. I was thinking that means 2-4g as babies and no more than 10g as adults. As others have said they can bully each other at any size. Bullying isn't only fighting but laying on top of one another and preventing access to resources like food, water or ideal temperature spots.

A 55 gallon would be okay for adult leos but far too big for babies. IMO the babies get stressed out if there's too much room. Those of mine that I got under 30g even appeared stressed in a 10 gallon when they were quarantined in my living room. Once they're over about 40g I wouldn't worry about them as much. The only issue with a tank that big is keeping a proper temperature gradient and also providing easy access to food, water and hides. You may wind up having to have two smaller UTH in opposite corners with a water bowl and food bowl on each side. Especially if the geckos are on the smaller side. IMO that is better than a small cramped cage but I would prefer individual cages. Also, hides are really important when keeping geckos in aquariums as they need refuge from light to feel safe and secure. Breeders keep them in racks as they provide the security of being enclosed on three sides and need fewer hides so there can be a bit more floor space. I personally still give mine a dry and a moist hide in my racks as they seem to use them both.

 

[warhawk77]

Yeah thinking it over I don't want to use the 55 gallon it's just too tall. I might see about getting a 30 or 40 gallon breeder tank.


I like the idea of having 2-3 in a tank but maybe if I get the 40 gallon I could do all females and another tank for a male. Lots of options I will have to see what I can find