Not looking good for Amelia.

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Hey guys! Its been a while :) You may recall me having issues with Amelia not eating the past due to her Enigma Syndrome, and now she's back at it again, only much, much worse. She acts hungry but refuses food, and even just a small amount of excitement or stimulation sets her off into circling and stargazing, and she won't stop all night when she starts. She hasn't eaten in like a month. Not even waxworms get her interest. She would at least eat waxworms the last time she went on a foodstrike... So heres the low-down:


About your leo:
- Sex: Female
- Age & Weight: 2 years, 70g (usually weighs closer to 90g). She's still round in the gut, but her tail has thinned considerably.
- How long have you owned your leo purchased as hatch
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend): Breeder: TMF Reptiles

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo: Only when I have to, for a few seconds. She's never liked it, and I chalk that up to her ES
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now: Refuses to eat for the last month, won't even eat waxworms. Any activity outside the tank makes her circle and stargaze, and she will not stop until the whole room has no activity in it. She does still drink water from her wet hide, so I add vitamin enhanced water conditioner to it. She did just shed a few nights ago, and ate that, though. She also seems extra sensitive to the room lighting, which hasn't ever changed. She is usually very friendly, and eats vigorously, hitting hard and fast.
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe: Food strikes are not uncommon for her, but she would still eat waxworms when offered them in the past.
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal): Normal
- When was the last time he/she went: A few weeks ago, not long after after the food-strike started.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on: See above

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size: 10 gallon
- Type (ex. glass tank): Aquarium
- Type of substrate: Paper towels
- Hides, how many, what kind: 1x dry, 1x humid
B) Heating
- Heat source: Small ZooMed heating pad, 75 watt Flukers purple heat lamp, set at an angle over the tank-- not directly over the tank. I usually use a 50 watt, but they stopped selling them here. I'm currently looking for a replacement, and picked up the Flukers lamp from Walmart as a temporary solution. She does much better with some overhead heat in addition to a heating pad. Probably because my aquariums make the room humid, and the lamp dries out the air in her tank. I use the same method for my other two gecko tanks.
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side): Unsure, but will get a reading this weekend. Tank set-up has been unchanged since I moved her to this tank last year. Temp as never been a problem.
- Method of regulating heat source: None
- What are you using to measure your temps: NA
- Do you have any lights (describe): Flukers 75 watt purple night heat lamp
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females): None
- Describe health, or previous problems: NA

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much): Meal worms are the staple, with crickets, waxworms, superworms and discoids as a treat about once a month each. I let her eat as much as she'll take during the warmer months, feeding every 1-2 days.
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect): Combination of hand feeding and hunting. Sometimes she can hunt, but usually does best if I just hold the prey item in place in front of her.
B) Supplements (describe how often): Normally every few feedings, but since she's been off food, I've been using it every feeding in hope to at least get something in her.
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands): Repashy Leopard Gecko Plus, and ZooMed ReptiSafe water conditioner
- What are you gut loading food with: Spring mix (with spinach removed when its included), romaine, and various squashes. Mealies and supers are housed on oatmeal.


I'm thinking it may be time to try the baby food thing (what kind? Just chicken?). She still drinks water, so I think I can get her to eat some baby food off her nose. If that works, I'll move on to something else (what? Bug slurry?). She's still active, but its a stressed sort of active, and she always looks to high strung and stressed, as of late. If I don't get her eating soon, I don't know what I'll do... Anyone have ideas?
 

indyana

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,336
Location
Massachusetts, United States
I think the bug slurry is a good idea; the Golden Gate Geckos slurry recipe pinned at the top of this forum would be a good start. I'm not a big fan of using baby food, as it is a completely unnatural food for an insectivorous gecko.
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
I want to try the baby food before blending up my worms. I know it's not a first choice as far as "natural" goes, but I just sold off 1000 worms from my little farm, and pickings are slim at the moment. If I mush most of them up, and she doesn't eat it, then it takes food away from my other geckos. If she does eat the baby food, I'll start a slurry ASAP (and buy some more worms lol). Actually, I may buy supers for the slurry. Nice and meaty. But I won't be anywhere near the feeder store until Tuesday, anyways.
 

sausage

BSc AMAS
Messages
1,548
Location
Winchester, UK
the slurry works wonders, im currently nursing a leo back to health using it. I only blitz up a had full of worms with some vits and calcium, splash of water then freeze in ice cube tray for easy daily feeding.
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
The baby food seems to be working right now. Only tried it last night, and she ate about a millimeter, which I was surprised. Once she realized she was getting food from the giant monster that was my hand and the syringe, she chilled out and let me drop it on her nose, and was ok with it asking as I wasn't putting any pressure on her nose, and let it lightly drip out of the syringe. If she does good with this for a few more days, I'll make a meal worm slurry. She's good at being ok with something one day and hating it the next, which is why I'm reluctant to sacrifice some of my worms just yet.

Can I also do this with crickets, and other feeders, as well? I may do some wax worms in there for some extra "goodness" lol
 

DrCarrotTail

Moderator
Messages
3,590
Location
Ridgewood, NJ
Too much heat could be exacerbating the issue? A 50 or 75 watt light is a LOT to have on a 10 gallon tank unless you have it a foot or so over the tank. I don't recommend lights in general but a 10 gallon tank is too small to really use two sources of heat on unless your house is 65 or under the majority of the day. They tend to heat up the entire enclosure and prevent a proper heat gradient. I don't have first hand experience with enigmas but I've read that they do get more light sensitive as they age and possibly moving her tank into an area of your house with medium to low light or covering part of it might help? I might try assist feeding live dusted insects before the slurry (basically hold her and pop one into her mouth when she opens it -I have a video on youtube showing how it can be done with a baby) Hope she gets it under control and gets back to eating on her own again soon!!
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
She does best with some extra warmth. The way I have the heat lamp over her tank is that it's clipped to the rim, and points down at about a 45 degree angle. It not sitting directly over the tank, and doesn't heat the tank very much more than room temp, but I think it helps get rid of some of the humidity from my 4 aquariums, which is why it seems help. Not really sure. I just know she does better with it, as I've tried without and she eats less and gets less active. She's got an active, in-your-face sort of personality, so it's easy to tell when she's not feeling well.

My room is the darkest room in he house. It's a garage, no windows. During the day, when I'm not home, the fish tanks light the room (not very bright for the size of the room), and when I'm home a single CFL in a ceiling fan lights the room. And then at night, her heat lamp, which isn't very bright. The CFL is pretty bright. I could get a dimmer one if you think I should. My body shades her tank when I'm dealing with her, and she keeps her eyes fully open when I see her.

I've tried force feeding her feeders, and she will have none of it. She flips out (sometimes literally) when anything gets near her face, and struggles like I'm killing her when I pick her up or try to gently restrain her. It's too stressful for her, and makes the problem worse. The baby food seems to be working, so I'll get some supers and wax worms, and make a meaty, fatty slurry for her. She seemed much more peppy last night, and her eyes were a little brighter. Hopefully she'll start eating soon!
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
So I made a slurry of crickets (about 30), super worms (about 20), wax worms (20), and meal worms (100 or so). Like the baby food, she accepts it. Sort of. She's getting really stressed over the whole syringe feeding situation, and I really think it's making it worse. I also noticed tonight that she's breathing infrequently and heavily (see video here: Amelia on Vimeo). She also *never* sleeps in the open. She sleeps in one of her hides. She may come out and nap in the middle of her tank if I'm messing around the bedroom, but she goes back in once it settles back down. She was out before I came in the room. She woke up for a second for me, and her eyes looked so sad. This isn't the Amelia I know. My Amelia is like a retarded little puppy that wants all your love and food. Not one that stresses over everything and refuses food for two months. I feel terrible that nothing I do is helping her, and that nothing probably will...

 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Thank you. We need it. She looked so pathetic tonight that I didn't even bother trying to feed her. It stresses her out so much. I wonder if I layer some out in a small dish, if she'd lap it up? Probably not. She'd probably just freak out that I'm too close to her. I'm torn on if I should find a vet or not. We all know there's only one "fix" for Enigma Syndrome... I just hate to give up on her before I know I've tried everything. She's turned around before, but she was never this far gone. I know they live exaggeratedly short lives, but to me she's still my baby. I was hoping for another 10 years out of her before I knew about ES.
 

indyana

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,336
Location
Massachusetts, United States
Stories like this about Enigmas make me sad, sad, sad. :( Most responsible breeders don't even sell them any more.

So sorry, Akari. You'll have to make the decision yourself about whether fighting to get her to eat is worth it.
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
I'll never get another enigma again. I've read that, besides the obvious Dreamsickles, enigmas have pink or solid white tails (no bands), so I won't be buying any like that-- I don't know how true that is, but better safe than sorry. I didn't sign up for this in the place, and I can't do it again. I'll see how she does for the next couple weeks. I'm done with classes for now, so I'll have more time to spend with her. I'll be going on vacation for a week in two weeks. I don't know what I'll do with her. Maybe board her at the reptile shop...?
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Ok, so she's now refusing all kinds of food. Well, she doesn't really refuse the mealworms so much as she stresses out over me being in the tank so much that she doesn't see the worms before their gone into hiding. I tried a dish of the bug slurry in the tank so that she could have a smelly plate of food with out me hovering over the tank, and the new object just stressed her into circling and walking into things. She seemed interested in the smell, but the whole idea of the dish being in there was just sensory overload for her little brain, and she couldn't bring herself to investigate it. Even just coming into the room when she's out stresses her, and given her reaction to everything else, I've yet to try syringe feeding again. It's more stressful than it's worth, I think. I'm actually starting an internship at a vets office tomorrow. Maybe they can provide some insight (if they know about geckos).... I'm very close to just dropping her in a bare tank full of smallish crickets and seeing how that works out. She really loves (or did, anyways) hunting them, dispute her lack of coordination and sight. Any one have any thoughts on what I should do?
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Tomorrow I'm going to buy some crickets and take all the stuff out her tank, and just drop them all in. See what she does, I suppose. I hate seeing her like this :( her tail has thinned out, and I just know her fat little tummy is next if she doesn't start eating again soon. My sister will be staying at he house while we're on vacation next week, so I'll have her watch over Amelia while were gone. The boys will be fine for 5 days, but Amelia needs someone to keep trying to get her to eat. At this point though, I don't really think anything is going to help.
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
I'm very happy to tell you guys that after months of not eating any feeders I've offered her, Amelia has finally eaten two good sized super worms. She was rearing for more, but I didn't want to over load her tummy. She's not had anything but shed skin and a few nibbles of slurry in god knows how long. Hopefully this trend continues!
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Thank you! I can't believe how hard she hit those worms LOL She wasn't wasting any time. I've offered her supers over the last several weeks, but she never touched them. I guess four plus months is the magic number with her :main_rolleyes:
 

Akari_32

Member
Messages
454
Location
Florida
Popping in to let you guys know that Amelia continues to do well, and is back to her usual crazy self at feeding times. I'm so happy I didn't give up on her. I knew she'd come around eventually. I'm not looking forward to the day she goes down hill again, because looking back at this time, it'll probably be her last. However, in the mean time, I will let her be as she is and as long as she's happy and eating with no signs of slowing down, I'll be happy too :) She's still a little bit on the thin side, but I feel like keeping her hungry is the key to keeping her going. I was giving her three worms two to three times a week, but I've now upped it to four worms, and will sort of go from there once she's been on this schedule for a while. I don't want to give her too much, and her loose her appetite which would make her go into a food strike phase, but I do obviously want to keep her healthy. Gotta find that Magic number! Lol
 

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