outcrossing sub species?

[boutiquegecko]

This might be stupid so please forgive me. When outcrossing the leopard gecko with other similar subspecies is it actually creating a new subspecies?
I understand why outcrossing is done, but not crossing the different subspecies. What are the pros and cons of that if any?
I supose I'm thinking of other animals we wouldn't think to outbreed to each other so why the leopard gecko? To make the gene pool stronger why not just breed to a normal wc and proceed from there?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Most of the leopard geckos we have are 'mutts', so they are most likely a combination of sub-species and/or localities. With all the inbreeding that is done, and with combination morphs we are creating, the gene pool is very shallow in many cases. By outcrossing with pure genetics, like the E. montanus, fasciolatus, afghanicus, etc., it can help strengthen the genetic properties of the geckos' offpsring.

Crossing with wild-type normals (we can't get wild-caught geckos here in the US) would technically be the same idea... but IMO the vast majority of available 'normals' are actually morph 'by-products' and are probably het for some other genetic trait... and just sold as 'normals'.

 

[Gazz]

If you breed say (Pet leo-E.M.DOMESTICUS X PURE E.M.FASCIOLATUS) that you just make it another member of (E.M.DOMESTICUS) it would be a F1 new blood.And could be responsible for a new morph so not a bad thing.But is best to use pure blood males to (E.M.DOMESTICUS) females.As this way you don't let you female pure blood give birth to (E.M.DOMESTICUS) offspring.But E.M.DOMESTICUS females just having more E.M.DOMESTICUS offspring so you don't wast time in making more pure bloods.But also have the chance of finding a new (E.M.DOMESTICUS) morph.

If you breed say (E.M.AFGHANICUS X E.M.FASCIOLATUS) that would be a hybrid,intergrade ect.But once again this would be a new F1 line of (E.M.DOMESTICUS) due to the offspring being a mutt-AKA-(E.M.DOMESTICUS).The real plus really is to keep pure bloods just that.But it dosen't hurt to let the boy pure bloods have there wicked way once in a while with pet leo-(E.M.DOMESTICUS) to see if they can offer you anything new :main_thumbsup: .

Only mother nature can make somthing that would qualify as a new speices/sub speices through natural selection or two close related speices crossing.Man made cross's and morphs will never have that clam in any animal speices.

 

[Nigel4less]

E. M. Domesticus, I`m pretty sure that isn't a legitimate species. But that would be a good way to put it.

 

[SaSobek]

wow E.M.DOMESTICUS ????

thats a new one to me. I bet that is cool looking. wonder what you get when you breed E.M.DOMESTICUS X albino Eclipse. can you tell us gazz, because it seams like you are the only one that has such things. i would love to see Pictures



Hybrids between different sub-species within a species are known as intra-specific hybrids

E.m. afghanicus X E.m.fasciolatus= intra-specific hybrid


Hybrids between different species within the same genus are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids or crosses

E.turcmenicus X E.m.fasciolatus= a interspecific hybrid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

We need to keep in mind that very little field research has been done for over 20 years in the Middle East. There is quite a bit of discrepanyy as to whether or not some of the "sub-species" are really localities and vise-versa. We cannot call them hybrids unless we are crossing species/sub-species... they would be considered 'intergrades'.

Most of the "E. domesticatus" we have now are already combinations of the sub-species/localities. Many of the original breeders of today's morphs used W/C and F1 E. m. montanus, afghanicus, and fasciolatus to create today's morphs.

Like I said... they are "mutts".

 

[Gazz]

wow E.M.DOMESTICUS ????

thats a new one to me. I bet that is cool looking. wonder what you get when you breed E.M.DOMESTICUS X albino Eclipse. can you tell us gazz, because it seams like you are the only one that has such things. i would love to see Pictures

DOMESTICUS-AKA-domestic :main_rolleyes: you own loads of them :main_thumbsup: a albino eclipse is a e.m.domesticus :main_thumbsup: .It's a leo that is captive all the way as all the morph strain leo's got there ancestory from mix blood of pure bloods making them basically mutt's that make them (domesticus).

It's very common pratist when tagging latin name to domestic animals with mud puddle gene pools made by man.Canis domesticus-(dog),Sus scrofa domesticus-(pig),Gullus domesticus-(chicken),Cyprinus carpio domesticus-(koi carp),Felis domesticus-(cat)'etc'etc.When close related sub'speices'etc have been bred to reach mans desired outcome.Is that not your pet/morph strian leopared gecko-(e.m.domesticus) a leo bred by man that has no claim of being a pure blood that came from directed wild anstory.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I guess I like the term E. m. domesticus a lot better than the term "mutt"... !!!

 

[Nigel4less]

I guess I like the term E. m. domesticus a lot better than the term "mutt"... !!!

We are talking about intergrades not Labradoodles right, Marcia lol

 

[miamimike]

Huh.....I kinda like "mutt" better...I'm such a simpleton......

 

[Gazz]

We are talking about intergrades not Labradoodles right, Marcia lol

Labradooldles i wouldn't consider no longer to be mutt's :main_thumbsup: as there a dog breed with a purpose the reach's mans needs.They are assistance/guide/therapy dogs with the brains and of a labradar and the low-shed coat of the poodle for people that are allergic to dogs.I'm not sure if there reconize by any of the kennel club in the world but there deffo far from being just mutt's and it won't be long before there on the KC register.

 

[eyelids]

Labradooldles i wouldn't consider no longer to be mutt's :main_thumbsup: as there a dog breed with a purpose the reach's mans needs.They are assistance/guide/therapy dogs with the brains and of a labradar and the low-shed coat of the poodle for people that are allergic to dogs.I'm not sure if there reconize by any of the kennel club in the world but there deffo far from being just mutt's and it won't be long before there on the KC register.

:book2: :inquisitive:

 

[GeckoJunkie]

Oh no Gazz you cant have it both ways. If you think that the leopard geckos are mutts cause man has breed them other that pure bloods. You can not think labradoodles are anything more just because they were breed for a purpose. remember the geckos are being bred for a purpose.....prettier geckos. Labradoodles are mutts with a purpose, same as leopard geckos, same as a lot of the hybrid snakes we are seeing now, same as about everything man has put their hands on.

 

[boutiquegecko]

But a labradoodle is not a domestic dog mated with a dingo per say.
So this is interesting on the outcrossing and makes a little more sense. Is anyone breeding the subspecies the leos are crossed with to keep those strain pure as they can? Is there a way to not outrcoss the leo w/ others and keep it robust? I guess I'm thinking say in twenty years how are we to tell what's what if they're all crossed together by then?

 

[SaSobek]

But a labradoodle is not a domestic dog mated with a dingo per say.
So this is interesting on the outcrossing and makes a little more sense. Is anyone breeding the subspecies the leos are crossed with to keep those strain pure as they can? Is there a way to not outrcoss the leo w/ others and keep it robust? I guess I'm thinking say in twenty years how are we to tell what's what if they're all crossed together by then?

i have pure subspecies and i am keeping them pure. i am also crossing them.
i have not crossed subspecies to subspecies i might just to play around the next couple of years but the main reason for the out crossing is to take morphs (Raptor, enigma, snow) and strengthin the blood line. not to cross pure subspecies together.

so far i have put the fallowing lines into subspecies.

bell, tremper, snow, enigma, Raptor/eclipse eye gene, stripe, reverse stripe, tangerine, and combos of all of them.

 

[paulnj]

my neighbor is french and is dating an egyptian gentleman and their son looks better than both of them. I am dead serious too:main_laugh:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Is anyone breeding the subspecies the leos are crossed with to keep those strain pure as they can?

I work with E. fasciolatus, and plan on keeping them pure. I also have a Mack Snow X E. fasciolatus that I am outcrossing.