Paradox spots -- genetic, or no?

[favrielle]

I've been delving deep in the forums in the last week (what can I say, my a/c is out and I'm bored) and noticed that a few people have had paradox spots pop up in multiple generations of a project. It makes me wonder how much of a genetic component is involved in this paradox spotting. I know they pop up a lot in W&Y projects, enough so that I've heard them mentioned as a "marker" for W&Y in the same way that a white nose and feet is a marker for Eclipse.

So now I'm wondering, has anyone done a breeding project focused specifically on paradox spotting? If so, what were the results? And if not... anyone want to help me start planning one?

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I would think that most if not all paradox spots are genetic at some level. The question is are they heritable or are the caused by a one time mutation that is not reproducible. I would think that to start a project you would have to find some geckos that have them, preferably the same morph so the chances of it going away with recessive genes is diminished, and take your chances. If more turn up then you got lucky and got a reproducible kind! If not you may be SOL and have a leo with a cool spot.

 

[favrielle]

Lol. I'm already getting a male tang het bell (with red stripe parentage) for my lovely bell ladies who has this spectacular red-orange and black paradox spot on his back, plus another smaller black spot on one leg. Here's his pic @ GeckosEtc. I don't mind if it's not heritable since he's also a lovely big boy who'll pair well with my girls, but it could be fun proving it out. I'd love to do something interesting with breeding that doesn't involve complicated triple-het projects to make the latest and greatest spectacular new morph, kwim?

 

[DrCarrotTail]

He is gorgeous! You'll have to keep us posted on whether or not the babies have spots! I wonder if his paradox spot was visible at hatching or if it developed as he grew? I bet it was there when it hatched but would be good to know for a better idea of whether you should hold onto babies to see or if you would know at once Good luck with him!

 

[ImperialReptiles]

I'll be breeding this guy who has paradox spots, I'll let you know if any pop up in the babies.

 

[favrielle]

Awesome, thanks! I plan to keep track of data for a couple of seasons. I might even breed a girl or two with spots back to the father, if any show up, and see how that goes. You'll have to keep us updated on what your spotty guy produces.

Lisa -- he is amazing, isn't he! For practicality's sake, I should have gone for one of the red stripe bell males instead of a het bell male, but something about him hooked me. He's so big (103g!) and that paradox spot is just amazing.

I'm planning on pairing him with my Neon Bell het Eclipse female, she's got lovely color and her father was apparently a vivid red stripe. I might also hook him up eventually with my little Jungle Bell Hybino, but that will depend on if she's up to weight. She's a tiny little thing, only 46 grams at 10-11 months.

I will probably keep most of his babies until 20g, just to be sure of how they're going to turn out. I'd hate to accidentally sell a holdback quality baby that just needed time to grow into its color!

This is going to be so much fun!

 

[favrielle]

My paradox guy is here. We had an unseasonable cool-down here, and he got shipped early. Yay!

Pics are here on my/my son's Facebook page.

 

[SC Geckos]

.

 

[SC Geckos]

Here is a Paradox Eclipse I hatched out in mid May.



However, I am pretty certain they can not be reproduced with any consistency but there is no harm in trying.

 

[favrielle]

Wow. Is it true to color/that bright in person?

 

[SC Geckos]

Wow. Is it true to color/that bright in person?

Yes, it is very bright. The picture is in natural light but I think it appears so bright because of how "washed out" the rest of the animal is.

 

[favrielle]

That's awesome!

 

[Dragoon Gecko]

We have been working on a paradox project over the last years. It is true to my personal feeling & results that you can raise the genetic inheritance of those spots in a line. However, it is much too early at this stage to say anything for sure, so all options are still open. At the current state it is still an open question if they are polygenetic and have to be treated like a linebred trait.
for more infos checkout my page (you can use prompt translator in google):
- ..:: DRAGOON GECKO ::..
/Rebecca

 

[favrielle]

Thank you for adding to the discussion, Rebecca.

I saw you've been working on your project for several years (since 2006/2009?) If you don't mind my asking, how have you gone about testing the inheritability of the paradox spotting?

I'm trying to work out a general plan for my own project, but I have to work somewhat small-scale for the next several years at least. I can only keep up to 20 adults/holdbacks, not counting hatchlings, due to space and life issues.

 

[Dragoon Gecko]

I've been working with the paradox since 2006. In 2009, our work was published in the italian book "il geco leopardino", showcasing our multiple paradox male.
I'm really sorry, but it is far too early to publish some details in our findings. So I want to safe this part until I can be sure, and had the chance to collect more data.
I recognized that paradox spots seemed to appear more or less regularly in one of our projects before really starting it. So maybe my basis is different from someone with a single animal or a starter generation of totally unrelated animals..

If I were you, I would first focus to more or less constantly reproduce the trait, and then do outcrossings to see how it works .
/Rebecca

 

[favrielle]

Thanks. I understand not wanting to release your findings before you are ready, so I guess I'll have to be patient.

 

[ImperialReptiles]

Check out the craigslist find I discovered:

And I found this at a +++++