Pastel and Lavendor

[Ccrashca069]

Are lavendor and Pastel the same thing? I could not find an answer to that at the leapord Gecko Wikki. Also if they are not the same, what is the differance?

Thanks

 

[fallen_angel]

John and I were showing eachother pics and we realized that we didn't know if there was a difference between lavendor and pastel, so here is John's Lavendor(s) and my Pastel

Lavendor:

High-Yellow Lavendor:

and Pastel:

 

[Ccrashca069]

They look the same to me. Anyone have an opinion on it?

 

[Ccrashca069]

lots of lookers but no answers yet

 

[Stevie]

I think both lavender and pastel are just ways to sell your wildtype geckos better and more expensive. To my opinion it's not a morph, because in any animal species there is some color and pattern variation.

Greets,

Stevie

 

[liljenn]

lots of lookers but no answers yet

:main_robin: Hmmmm....Looking to see if anyone knows the answer! I don't ... but interested to know!:main_huh:

If I were to give an educated guess (educated by all the wonderful GF members! lol), I would say they are the same - lavender & yellow are pastel colors. Not the same as "normals" because IMO normals are darker yellow (not hi-yellow or pastel) and have more spotting than pastels???

 

[fallen_angel]

Lavendar and Pastel look the same to me, and definitely MUCH different than a normal (no offense Stevie, I respect your opinion).. the Pastel has less spotting because he inherited it from mommy, though
here's a much better, digital picture that I took today:

and yes, normals are MUCH darker - they are a darker yellow and have darker bands (not lavendar ones)

and Stevie, we're not selling this guy, so it's really not for the purposes of jacking up prices or anything

 

[Ccrashca069]

Thanks Stevie and Jenn.

 

[fallen_angel]

Yes, thanks to the both of you

 

[Nigel4less]

I have to agree with Stevie, but then again, they look like they are carrying some sort of hypo gene, in my opinion I don't consider Pastels a legitimate mutation, now if someone would do some work with them maybe I could give you a different answer.

 

[Stevie]

Lavendar and Pastel look the same to me, and definitely MUCH different than a normal (no offense Stevie, I respect your opinion).. the Pastel has less spotting because he inherited it from mommy, though
here's a much better, digital picture that I took today:

and yes, normals are MUCH darker - they are a darker yellow and have darker bands (not lavendar ones)

and Stevie, we're not selling this guy, so it's really not for the purposes of jacking up prices or anything

Haha, you wouldn't know what people do these days to get a bit more money. That I mean is, that Lavender or Pastel isn't a distinct morph. I bred a lot of these kinds of animals, but they all were the product of normal wildtype gecko crossings. I think "Pastel / Lavender" is created by playing with the incubation and breeding temperature and that there's little or no influence of any genetic compound. It's well known that when a leopardgecko is incubated rather warm, the amount of melanin (black colour) is reduced and even more when it's also reared warm.

Greets,

Stevie

 

[fallen_angel]

there is no hypo in the genes of our "pastel," it's just that the mother (line bred snow) had reduced spotting, and the babies tend to also have reduced spotting

 

[fallen_angel]

Stevie, I can't say that I agree because all of our "normals" (from the same father and two different females) are looking lighter and "pastel," and the pastel (as I have been told) has been proven to be dominant, at least 80% of the time. We have lowered the temps too, so we'll see what other normals look like in a month or two.

Moreover, we have some snows that are lightening up much more than others.

The way it was explained to me is that the Pastel is an actual trait, it's just that it's only a desired trait in "normals" (or just the gene by itself) because once you start mixing "pastel" with other morphs, it's hard to distinguish true pastels from the others. For example, my Mack Snow is (in theory) a Pastel, but he wasn't advertised as being one because he doesn't look much different from a regular Mack Snow. Likewise, I would never advertise anything as "pastel" unless it was normal with muted yellow and lavendar colors. The only price difference would be instead of being $20, it might be $30, and I think people would pay for that because they do look different.. I would think that our pastel normal was a Mack Snow if I hadn't seen it as a hatchling..

Where is GAZZ?????????? He is the one that helped me with ALL of this pastel business :main_yes: (thanks again Gazz )

And as always Stevie, no disrespect or anything towards you, as this is the first time I've ever disagreed with your opinion

 

[Sandra]

I somewhat agree with Stevie, but also with Jess (weird huh?)

Jess, your are talking about MACK pastels, aren't you? If I remember well (I haven't looked to much into it), they hatch with gray and yellow bands (instead of black and yellow from normals or black and white from Mack Snows) and the head ends up having a different background color (more whitish). Mack snows produce them and they are thought to be dominant on their own.

But some people will talk about pastels (and lavenders) from the wild types. I also don't consider that a mutation, but just a "variation" or "selection". If I recall well, the "official" thought was that pastels are animals with faded pattern (gray or brown instead of black) and lavenders are... Well, just animals showing lavender color. But again, the idea changes from breeder to breeder.

Both are things that can happen without anyone even having to select-bred, as Stevie said.

 

[fallen_angel]

I see the difference, thanks Sandra.. I am not necessarily talking about Mack Pastels, because this hatchling was definitely normal looking when he first entered this world! here is the same gecko as a hatchling:

However, our "Pastel" hatchlings both have a Mack Snow parent, so the pastel did get produced from the Mack line, and not a wildtype line. We aren't trying to figure out what is "Mack Pastel" because they don't seem to look much different from Mack Snows, (pastels only look significantly different when the gene is by itself, or in a "normal", so it gets too confusing to actually mix with other morphs).

here's a quote about mack pastels/pastels:

Mack Pastels as babies are distinguished by their vibrant bright yellow coloration at hatch. They appear to be much more "yellow" than typical normal / wild type offspring. Mack Pastels mature with a coloration similar to those of a Mack snow with muted yellows and lavenders, but upon reaching maturity, they seem to almost go through an overnight change and the colors intensify extremely. The best way to differentiate between a Mack Pastel and Mack snow is at hatch. Mack Snows will always be white / black / and grey while the Mack Pastels will be vibrant (almost glowing) yellow.
http://www.mackleopardgeckos.com/genetics.html

I think some people would call this one a "mack pastel" because he was a Snow sibling, but I just call him "pastel/normal" because he doesn't actually carry the mack gene.

does that make sense? Sometimes my thoughts get jumbled :main_rolleyes:




Stevie, I forgot to mention this, but Alex Hue has successfully worked with this trait:

Mack pastel trait has now been singled out through selective breeding. Alex Hue Reptiles bred a Mack pastel to various normal leopard geckos and produced Mack Pastels within the first generation offspring. Alex Hue Reptiles has also bred Mack Pastels back to each other and produced 100% Mack Pastels, no super form was produced
http://www.mackleopardgeckos.com/genetics.html

MOREOVER, our Mack Snow male that is the father to all of our current hatchlings was from Alex Hue, so it's no surprise that our male has Pastel in him and is passing it onto his offspring


Thanks again :sweetheart:

 

[Ccrashca069]

This Topic was really more about if Pastel and Lavender are the same or not.

To address the temp coloring thing Stevie brought up. I have 4 hatchling. All 4 of them have lavender coloring. They all hatched at 81 degrees. I do not move eggs to a higher temp. I am not a believer in that practice. The Father of those hatchlings was sold to me as a Hi-Yellow Lavender. The mothers of those hatchings also had lavender on them. I can't take any new pics of their moms because they passed away but one of the moms is posted already and the father is. Mine are the wild type. They got the lavender geneticly not because of temp manipulation. Here is a pic of one of the hatchlings.

 

[liljenn]

IMO the pastel coloring is very much genetic. I think Pastel & Lavender are the same ... maybe a leo with more Lavender banding is considered "Lavender", rather than just "Pastel"??

As far as the wildtype Stevie is talking about, I am curious if what we are calling "Pastel" or "Lavender" are more genetically closer to a pure subspecies. As I have read, in the USA our "leopard gecko" is a genetic mutt of the many subspecies of the Eublepharis Macularius. The "pastels" & the "snows" look very much like the wildtype Eublepharis Macularius Fasciolatus. I believe these pure wildtype subspecies are more prevalent in Europe, not so much in the USA. And what we call "Normals" are just dark yellow with black spots (much like the E.M. Afghanicus). Food for thought ....

 

[Ccrashca069]

You could be right Jenn. In the USA I think of Normals more as a Hi-Yellow with alot of Dark Spots. So unless someone way up in the leopard gecko top says otherwise, I am just going to assume they are the same.

 

[fallen_angel]

I don't know if lavenders have more lavender or not, the definition of a pastel is "muted yellow and lavender colors." I guess my pastel isn't the best representation of one because one of his parents is a line bred snow, making his lavender and yellow that much more muted.

Thanks for your input Jenn

Same here, John