Question about Enigmas

[SpaceCadet]

I would like to ask something in regards to the breeding of Enigmas. Since it is a dominant trait, if you breed an enigma gecko to a non enigma gecko will it be obvious if it's offspring carry the Enigma trait? Is it something that is always expressed in the phenotype of an animal or can a "normal" looking gecko carry the gene and pass it on to future offspring or later develop Enigma syndrome itself? I'm asking because I've seen a lot of Enigma type geckos bred to non-Enigmas and they produce phenotypes that don't look like they carry Enigma genes.

Thank you!

 

[scm133]

From what I understand with the genetics of enigma is that they are either enigma or not enigma.
Breeding enigma to non-enigma will give you 50% enigma and 50% non-enigma chance. The non-enigma can not be het for enigma, and it be passed on to future offsprings.

 

[tb144050]

I dont plan to breed enigmas any time soon, but i have wondered......if you breed enigma x enigma, will you get some double-dominant "EE" offspring? (hopefully not a super form,.....just that ALL hatchlings from that leo would be atleast dominant "E")

 

[scm133]

I dont plan to breed enigmas any time soon, but i have wondered......if you breed enigma x enigma, will you get some double-dominant "EE" offspring? (hopefully not a super form,.....just that ALL hatchlings from that leo would be atleast dominant "E")

Not advisable to breed enigma x enigma.

 

[SpaceCadet]

I dont plan to breed enigmas any time soon, but i have wondered......if you breed enigma x enigma, will you get some double-dominant "EE" offspring? (hopefully not a super form,.....just that ALL hatchlings from that leo would be atleast dominant "E")

Breeding EngimaxEnigma will give you Super Derps.

 

[SpaceCadet]

Thank you for the reply! That makes a lot of sense. It's what I speculated, but I just wanted to ask to be sure.

 

[tb144050]

I dont plan to breed enigmas any time soon...

I just dont want to go into that area...

 

[Treefolk]

I dont plan to breed enigmas any time soon, but i have wondered......if you breed enigma x enigma, will you get some double-dominant "EE" offspring? (hopefully not a super form,.....just that ALL hatchlings from that leo would be atleast dominant "E")

You will get 2c dominate enigmas that will be able to pass the trait 100% of the time and regular enigmas.

Not advisable to breed enigma x enigma.

That's not true. You can breed enigma to enigma without problems.

Thank you for the reply! That makes a lot of sense. It's what I speculated, but I just wanted to ask to be sure.

Ya read about ES and see if you are ok with it. My enigma is my favorite gecko, she is the most calm and friendly gecko I own... Kinda like a person with downs, very happy and friendly.

 

[marcia]

That's not true. You can breed enigma to enigma without problems.

That is a very bad idea. It is widely believed and a lot of research has been done into it that every enigma carries the ES gene, not all will show symptoms though. Breeding 2 enigmas together could cause disastrous results. The gene gets passed down no matter what. You can breed two enigmas together that appear symptom-free, but the offspring can still show some of the worst symptoms. And that's a fact.

 

[Treefolk]

That is a very bad idea. It is widely believed and a lot of research has been done into it that every enigma carries the ES gene, not all will show symptoms though. Breeding 2 enigmas together could cause disastrous results. The gene gets passed down no matter what. You can breed two enigmas together that appear symptom-free, but the offspring can still show some of the worst symptoms. And that's a fact.

There's no documented proof of breeding enigma to enigma increases frequency of ES. You can breed a symptom free enigma to something else and still have ES offspring. If you can't handle it, don't breed enigmas, simple.



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[scm133]

Ben @ Art Geckos did a great article on ES for the Gecko Time. Interesting!!
Enigma Syndrome in Leopard Geckos: An Autosomal Dominant Disorder | Gecko Time

 

[marcia]

There's no documented proof of breeding enigma to enigma increases frequency of ES. You can breed a symptom free enigma to something else and still have ES offspring. If you can't handle it, don't breed enigmas, simple.



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There is also no proof of an ES free enigma either. It is common knowledge not to breed 2 enigmas together. That's my opinion though and I know countless others who agree, it's why I don't breed enigmas.


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[Treefolk]

There is also no proof of an ES free enigma either. It is common knowledge not to breed 2 enigmas together. That's my opinion though and I know countless others who agree, it's why I don't breed enigmas.


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So you are commenting on something you've never done? As for "countless" others, countless others used to cool their leopard geckos before breeding, when it's speculated that it's harmful and now nobody does it. Show me proof, until then it's just here say and conjecture.


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[marcia]

I have my own experience of producing enigmas. So are you contradicting what vastly more experienced people than ourselves are saying? I don't need to continue this discussion, regardless, I don't think it's a good idea and I'll stick by that until someone provides concrete proof otherwise


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[Treefolk]

My point is that "vastly more experienced people" don't always know what they're talking about. When I started breeding in 2006, I was told by every "experienced" breeder to cool my geckos. Nobody does that anymore unless they're trying to rotate colonies for mass production.

Where, anywhere has anyone actually said "I bred a bunch of enigma pairs together and all the clutches had a much higher incidence of ES compare to when I bred enigmas to non-enigmas"? I want to see this.