question about recessive genes

[Jeff876533]

ok, i am starting to get the whole genetics thing. If i am right (correct me if im wrong) the dominant gene while always be expressed, not the recessive. but if there are 2 recessive genes, the recessive will obviously be expressed. The question is, what morphs have recessive genes in leopard geckos? I have heard that the blizzard is recessive, is that true also?

 

[GeckoMandi]

Albino, Patternless, Patternless Albino, Blizzard. I'm pretty sure those are right, if not someone will correct me.

This is the site I am using for reference, and I am still learning.
http://www.geckosetc.com/htm/genetics.htm

 

[IMacBevan]

There are actually two parts to your question.

The first, your assumption about the dominant trait always exhibiting needs to be qualified. In a homozygous dominant or heterozygous state, the dominant form will always show, whereas the recessive will not. An example of this would be a normal leopard and an amelanistic (albino). The normal "look" is dominant and will always exhibit whether the animal is homozygous dominant or heterozygous. The amelanistic is recessive and will only show when it is homozygous. This works for simple dominant recessive traits. It doesn't work for traits which are codominant such as the Mack Snow or Giant traits. In this case, the homozygous dominant will look one way, the heterozygous form will look another and the homozygous recessive will look like yet another.

There are three forms of amelanism (none of which are compatible with each other) and the blizzard form all of which are recessive. SHCT, CT, and a good portion of other morphs are line breed and not known to be recessive at the moment. Mack Snows and Giants are codominant as already mentioned.

Ian B.

 

[IMacBevan]

oops forgot about the Murphy Patternless which is also recessive.

Ian B.

 

[Ian S.]

blizzard, patternless, bell albino, tremper albino, las vegas albinos, jungles, bold stripes & red stripes, as well as the reverse stripes are also recessive. Hypos in general are recessive. The tangerine (hypo tangerine), reduced spotting (super hypo tangerine), and carroting in the tail (Super hypo tangerine carrot tail). are the results of selective line bred traits in the hypos.

In order for an animal to express the desired phenotype, each parent must have a copy of the gene. AKA heterozygous (het).
Hope this helps!!

 

[Ian S.]

Aptors and raptors are also recessive morphs

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Mandi & Ian B are correct that Albino (Bell, Tremper, Las Vegas), Patternless, Blizzard are PROVEN recessive mutations. They do not "act recessive" they ARE recessive.

Snow, Giant & "Ray-Hine line" Hypo are Codominant (though I'm still waiting on the picture family tree to check it out for myself, the idea is very intrigueing).

Jungles are not recessive (I've paired them, the results point to not recessive), but their might be a form of codominance linked with Stripe & Aberrant. I'll be testing that hopefully in the fall.

"Standard" Hypo, Carrottail & Tangerine are not recessive, I've also tested this by pairing a top of the line Super Hypo Tangerine Carrottail with a plain jane normal, the offspring produced were of varying "lower grades" of Hypo, Tangerine & Carrottail.

As for the APTORS/RAPTORS, obviously the Albino involved is recessive. The "patternless" I think has been shown to be related to the "super" version of the Red Stripe or Reverse Stripe (can't remember which, Dan you've figured it out, why not you jump in? ). The Eclipse, who they heck knows, that seems to be popping up everywhere you look now!
____________________

So the simple answer to the question is the only mutations you can without a doubt say are recessive at this time are Albino (Bell, Tremper, Las Vegas), Patternless & Blizzard.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Jungles are not recessive (I've paired them, the results point to not recessive), but their might be a form of codominance linked with Stripe & Aberrant. I'll be testing that hopefully in the fall.

After working with stripes and bold stripes for a few years now, I can say with a large amount of certainty that there are two distinct strains of stripes. There is the version that 'acts' like a recessive, and then there is a version that 'acts' like a co-dominant. Right now I am working with what I believe to be both strains, in the non-albino form. Hopefully I will be able to extrapolate the information to identify if my theory is correct!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I'm glad to see at least I'm not the only one seeing something Co-Dom going on with these pattern mutations.

But I guess the question in regards to that is, can you visually tell the difference between the Co-Dom & Selective? That's always the issue because their will be some who insist that they have hets, when they really don't know. I realise we will never have a perfect world where everyone labels their offspring correctly, but I'm always hopeful.

The "Ray Hine" Hypos it seems you can tell the difference from hatching. It would be nice if their were some "markers" for these too.

 

[marula]

a question about two different recessive genes..
if i breed a bell albino with a tremper albino, babies will born normal...but they are het fo both recessive genes?

about stipe...if they are recessive or co-dominant they aren't poligenic, right?
what's about red stripe or reverse stripe? are those different kind of genes?

 

[IMacBevan]

Yes. Tremper amel x Bell amel or Tremper amel x Rainwater amel or Rainwater x Bell amel all result in phenotypically normal individuals. Genotypically, they are heterozygous for each form of amelanism.

When the F1 generation are bred to the appropriate amel, each offspring has a 50/50 chance of being amel or normal. An F1 het bred to another F1 het will in general produce 9 normals, 3 of one form of amel, 3 of the other form of amel and one that exhibits both forms of amelanism.

Hope that helps,

Ian

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

a question about two different recessive genes..
if i breed a bell albino with a tremper albino, babies will born normal...but they are het fo both recessive genes?

Correct!

about stipe...if they are recessive or co-dominant they aren't poligenic, right?

You can have selectively bred (polygenic) within a Recessive or Co-Dom mutation. An example of this is in Cornsnakes, the Amel (Recessive) can be Candy Cane, Sunglow, Reverse Okeetee, etc (all selectively bred with the Recessive Mutation).

 

[marula]

yes..but the poligenic trait is not the same of a double or triple recessive traits...so call stripe poligenic (if the genes is double or triple recessive) is not correct, right?
for example..the hips displasy, in dogs,is polygenic (form a different kind of genes..and sometimes can appair after 3 or 4 generation...)
working with poligenic traits is not the same of working with co-dominant o double recessive genes..
you can use a co-dominant trait and working for a different kind of poligenes traits, but they are different..

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

No, selectively bred is not the same as Recessive or Co-Dom even if it is working within them.

Selectively bred is used to identify the mutations where numerous unidentifiable alleles on numerous loci cause a particular trait. Because of this, the mutation can not be accurately reproduced 100% since their is no way to insure that each one of the alleles that make up the mutation are passed onto the offspring.

 

[marula]

..ok..i understand now! ...remember...be patient with me hahaha

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

No problem. Glad you understand.