Ryoo got worse...

[jemjdragon]

So I took Ryoo to the vet two weeks ago and from a physical examination, he said that she seems fine because she is really active, has good reactions, etc. He told me to check my temperatures. Just in case, he gave me some medication for parasites. I was supposed to giver her the medicine dailt for 7 days. And I did. Also my temps are around 94*F on the warm side and 70*F on the cool side.

After the last day of meds, she still wouldn't eat but soon accepted 1 waxworm. And that's how it was for a few days. I always left mealworms in a bowl for her just in case. After those few days he would eat a maximum of 7-12 mealworms. Then she stopped eating again, and now shes sleeping more and only hangs out in her moist hide.

When I looked in the tank now, I find really really liquidy poo.

I'm thinking of feeding her slurry again, but I've run out of mealies. And the petstores don't have many anymore. Can I substitute them with superworms? Also what can I use to substitute Hill's A/D pet food?

I still have a lot of the medicine left, should I start giving it to her again? Should I go to the vet and this time bring a sample of poo? I'm starting to get really worried, and am starting to run out of ideas.

 

[OSUgecko]

The only thing about Ryoo's health that seems abnormal to me is the liquid feces. I wouldn't put her on the slurry unless she was losing weight and had not eaten at all in a long time. If her feces look very abnormal, I would have your vet take a look at them (take a fresh sample in to the clinic) and give him an update on her condition. Otherwise I would probably just continue to wait and see.

What parasite medication did he give her?

Superworms are fine as a nutritional supplement (although they have a much higher chitin content). My geckos love them; I feed them occasionally for variety.

 

[OSUgecko]

I found your old post about Ryoo. Is she still losing weight? The intermittent feeding behavior shouldn't be anything to worry about unless she is too thin or not maintaining her body weight. Some pictures would be really helpful.

Also, are you handling her a whole lot? Part of her inappatance could be due to stress.

 

[jemjdragon]

She is getting too thin.
2 months ago she mantained a weight of 45 - 50 grams.
Today she weighs 33 grams.
Here are some pictures:

How she looks today

How she looked 3 weeks ago

How she looked before.


As for handling, I haven't handled her since she started loosing weight (unless I was giving her meds or getting sheds off her toes) and even before, I never handled her a lot.

The medication was "Flagyl Liquid (chicken)". I'm guessing the "chicken" means its chicken flavored? I don't know. The dosage for her was 0.04cc orally once daily for 7 days.

 

[jemjdragon]

After inspecting my bottle of medicine further in the past few minutes I noticed something. It is either mislabeled with the wrong experation date or the people at the vet office gave me expired medicine.
If that is the real experation date then I gave Ryoo expired medicine making the problem worse...
I feel terrible. I should have checked the bottle right when I recived it...

 

[jemjdragon]

So I'm not sure what's currently going to happen but I'm going to go to the vet tomorrow. THis time I'll have a poo sample for them to check. I'll also check to make sure the medicine is okay before I leave.

 

[OSUgecko]

Wow, I did not realize from your previous post just how much weight she had lost. Something is definitely very wrong with her. I am REALLY surprised that your vet seemed to think she was "fine".

Flagyl (also known as metronidazole) is an antibiotic that is effective against anaerobic bacteria and has some anti-protozoal properties. The expired medication should NEVER have been prescribed. The reason drugs have expiration dates is because over time some antibiotics can either lose their potency or become more potent; in order to have accurate dosing you have to give the drug before it expires. That could have been dangerous to your gecko.

Has she been regurgitating anything or acting abnormally in any other way? How is she housed, and did anything change in her housing or environment before she started showing symptoms? Did you get any new reptiles within the past year or so?

In addition to a very thorough physical exam, I think you should have her tested for cryptosporidium. There may be other diagnostic tests needed depending on what the exam findings are. If your vet is not an exotics specialist, I would recommend finding one and taking her to the specialist. I can't imagine anyone looking at Ryoo and thinking that she was "fine" based on her body condition.

I would also be extremely cautious about sanitation practices until you know what you are dealing with here. If it is crypto, it could spread to all of your other reptiles, and there is currently no cure for the disease.

 

[jemjdragon]

The newest reptile I've gotten in the past year is Mift, my male leopard gecko. I've had Mift since August. Ryoo and Mift used to be housed together but when she started loosing weight, I separated them. Mift now has his own tank upstairs, while Ryoo is in her previous tank downstairs. Mift seems to be fine though. Normal poo and his tail has been getting fatter and fatter. But I guess you never know.

Other than that, my vet is an exotics vet. Yesterday I went to him with a fecal sample to get tested and he gave my some new (non-expired) medicine for free. The staff at the front desk said I will get the test results from the fecal test on Tuesday or Wednsday.

The medicine is still Flagyl, and it has the same dosage. He said if things don't start getting better after this week (no increased appitite, etc) then I'll have to bring her back again.

She has not been regurgitating. She has, however, been spending more time just sleeping on the hot side of the tank and in her moist hide. Normally she is active, especially when I go to her tank with food. Now she just sleeps. And the liquid poo is also not normal for her. A week ago she had a terrible shed and I had to help her out a bit. A few days later her eye got "glued" shut with something that I later found was because of some stuck shed on her eyelid so i gently removed the piece of shed with a q-tip wetted in warm water. Her eye seems fine now.

I'm really hoping it is not crypto. I am washing my hands before and after messing with her or her tank. And when I remove old live food i place them in a separate container from the "newer" livefood and don't feed it to any of my lizards. Should I just throw out the old live food?

 

[froggz]

I would honestly speak to your vet and see if there is something else other than flagyl that he could prescribe your gecko. I've read alot of negative reviews on flagyl and it sounds as if the vets just using it as an appetite stimulant. Being an exotics vet I'm surprised the vet didn't do more testing to pinpoint the problem.

If she has worms, panacur (Fenbendazole) may be alot safer, and I would very honestly get her on some type of a beneficial gut bacteria supplement so that she can properly digest and utilize her food better.

 

[OSUgecko]

Did the vet do any other diagnostic tests? If she did not improve at all after a week of Flagyl, I think your vet should have changed her treatment. She may have a bacterial infection that is not responsive to Flagyl, but would respond to another antibiotic (such as Baytril). Or she may not have a bacterial or parasitic problem at all. I hope he gave her a very thorough physical exam, X-rayed her, etc.

Is there any chance that she might be pregnant/egg-bound? She doesn't look like it from your pictures, but she was housed with a male for a while...

I would definately not feed anything that has been in contact with her to your other pets. And stay faithful on the handwashing. I hope she's crypto negative but it sounds awfully suspicious to me...

I'm so sorry that she is sick!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

When your vet originally prescribed Flagyl, was there evidence of protozoan parasties in the fecal test?

 

[jemjdragon]

froggz: I will ask my vet about the medication and where I can get the beneficial gut bacteria. Other than that, I'm not actually sure if he did any other testing after just looking at her and feeling her stomach for impaction, he took her to the back room for a while.

OSUgecko: I don't think that she is pregnant or egg bound be cause I don't see any eggs in her tummy, but it could be because I'm not really sure what I'm looking for.

Golden Gates Geckos: When he originally originally prescribed me Flagyl, I didn't have a fecal test with me. He told me he'll give me medicine for parasites just in case.

Other than that, Ryoo seems to be getting really dehydrated. Should I try and put drops of water into her nose with a q-tip to make her drink?
Also, I'm still curious on what pet food I can replace Hill's A/D pet food, so I can make slurry with all the ingredients. She had a really bad shed too, I had to peel all of it off.

 

[froggz]

It really sounds as though he was using the Flagyl as an appetite stimulant.

You can check out petstores and online places for the beneficial bacteria. The brand I use is called Bene-bac in the bird/reptile formula. There are other brands as well, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

 

[BitterNatch]

Hey, you can get the beneficial gut bacterias from yogurt or any probiotic-added commercial beverage, I give my girls a few drops now and then, daily if i'm deworming or medicating, since lots of meds can wash away all the intestinal flora.

A good broad-spectrum dewormer that has also antibacterial properties (and may even act against crypto) is Nitazoxanide. I actually deworm myself (& the cats, dog... boyfriend)with that one, and is really mild compared to the effects of Metronidazole (altough it doesn't stimulate their appetite... prozac does! XD). But... I haven't been able to find the dosage and schedule for reptiles, so I haven't tried it yet.

Good luck with your girl, she's gorgeous

 

[jemjdragon]

I got the results from the fecal test today and it seems Ryoo is clean. They found no parasites. The vet still wants me to give her flagyl but also gave me another medicine. It is called Baytril (I think). The dosage for this one is 0.03cc daily for 7 days. He said to call within a week to tell him how she is doing and if she is not any better, I'm going to have take her in for another check-up.

I weighed her yesterday and she was 30 grams, so she lost 3 grams.

 

[lizardlove]

It seems a little strange that he's prescribing medicines when it seems he has no idea what's wrong... Not sure what Baytril does, I haven't heard of it, but you'd think he'd let you know what the problem is or find out before he prescribes something. It just seems odd to me.

 

[jemjdragon]

Baytril is antibiotic to kill or prevent bacterial growth. I'm guessing what my vet is doing is trying to pinpoint the problem. If its not parasites, it might be bacteria. Unless harmful bacteria can also be found in the fecal sample, I guess this is the next step to finding out what's wrong? Hopefully this medicine works.

From: petplace.com
http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/enrofloxacin-baytril/page1.aspx

Enrofloxacin is a broad-spectrum antibiotic used to treat infections in animals caused by susceptible bacteria.

Enrofloxacin belongs to a general class of antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones. Other related drugs in this class include ciprofloxacin.

Enrofloxacin is thought to inhibit the synthesis of DNA within the bacteria, resulting in bacterial death.

Enrofloxacin is a prescription drug and can only be obtained from a veterinarian or by prescription from a veterinarian.

 

[jemjdragon]

She still won't eat. So I'm going to make slurry for her. I found a thread that asked about pet food in slurry and one person said they used pedigree dog food in their's, do you think it will be pkay if I used that too instead of Hill's A/D food? My vet is a little far away and I won't be able to get there this week. There are also two humane societies near me, do you think they would have Hill's A/D food?

 

[2bacop]

Hill's is pretty much a prescription science diet food so if there is a store around you that carries science diet I would use that instead of pedigree. Pedigree isnt very good for dogs let alone leos.

 

[theclean1]

IM GONNA SAY A BAD WORD!@