Sick beardie?

[Geckolicious]

I have a four year old female dragon who has been making a weird hoarking sound. She has always done this occasionally and checked out fine at the vet. But that was two years ago. Now she is doing it very frequently and she has a lot of crusty saliva buildup around her mouth. She is also losing weight despite her constant appetite. She is still a voracious eater and still has her normal attitude.

The temps haven't changed, the enclosure is not humid and her tank mates show no signs of any issue.

As I mentioned in another post, I have access to Fortaz, but have never performed injections on a bearded dragon. Is it the same procedure as with iguanas?

The vet is not an option at this point because it will cost several hundred dollars just for the examination and tests. Both she and the gecko don't seem to be suffering so if I can treat this myself, I would prefer to do so.

 

[Bellalee]

Saliva buildup? First thought is a URI, and a constant appetite + losing weight = worms most of the times.

I would never use a medicine that has not been tested on a particular species on your own animal.

 

[darkridder]

beardies do quite well with fortaz, the problem is that you should never self medicate because fortaz may not help the issue, could make it worse, and you also need the correct dosage as it changes based on the animals weight. A vet really needs to be involved in this situation, I know it costs alot, one of those things you need to think ahead of time when considering getting an animal, reptiles cost alot more to vet then a cat or dog. But many vets are willing to work with clients on payment plans, and some even do care credit, I know my office does.

It sounds like your beardies has a URI. URI are often caused by improper setups, ie the temps are too low. Are you reading your temps with a digital or stick on thermometer? Stick ons can read incorrectly anywhere from 7-21 degrees so if you are using one, your temps could be way off. Are you also offering a water bowl? URI can also be caused from too much humidity.

I would consider keeping her alone. For one I am a bit confused, is she housed with a leopard gecko also? Not exactly in the best interest of the leo to be housed with a beardie, completely different setup requirements. You also run a high risk of out of the blue, one day she deciding for herself not waiting a roommate. Realize in the wild reptiles do not hang out with one another, they come together to breed then go their seperate ways, so it would be in the best interest of them both to be housed alone. Even moreso at the fact that although it may not seem like it, the gecko there could be causing some stress, which isnt helping her situation at all.

I know, not the responce you were really hoping for, but seriously she needs to see a vet to get proper dosaging done, and get a fecal because even beardies with parasites (in which case fortaz wont do a darn thing for it) can eat like normal.

 

[Geckolicious]

My only concern is that it won't help or maybe even make the situation worse. Dosages, concentrations, etc are not the issue. Her temps are fine, there is no water in the tank, the cages are well ventilated but free from drafts, etc.

The gecko is certainly not her tankmate... she lives with two other beardies. The gecko is a separate issue altogether.

She has already been treated with panacur, though no fecal was performed.

As I said, the vet is just not an option right now. Four years ago when I got this girl, I was very successful in life. Things change. Thanks to this lovely economy, I have no job (downsizing/I was paid "too much" for them to keep me on), no savings left, etc. Even the best of payment plans won't help at this point. My choices are to self-medicate or hope she just gets better on her own. Or, if it comes to it, put her down at home.

So, I come back to my question about the Fortaz. Is it a sub-cutaneous injection in her forearm similar to that of an iguana?

Thanks!

 

[darkridder]

Well then I would seperate her right away from the other beardies, as I said being stressed out just makes things worse, and to heal she needs as limited amount of stress as possible. Even if you dont have an extra aquarium, something as simple as a very large storage container will work for the time being.

Working for an exotics vet, and being an avid animal lover I will always say, there is a way. I spent $500 trying to save my first beardies life, he lived to 9, an old man but I did my best. I am a college student, work part time. I sold off things that I could and made arrangements to make payments, even if that only meant they got $20 a month. I am now lucky enough to work for an exotics vet and all I pay for is meds now, which still helps as I am still a college student and I still work part time. I however have an emergency fund for just incase with these guy. My point, if you plea with a vet they are willing to help. By not getting help, remember that is a form of animal abuse, as is taking it in your own hand to euth your pet, to which no putting them in the freezer is nt a humane way. I will not give you advice on how to administer, nor will I give you the proper dosages (I know how much to get a such and such size of most species of animals), that is for your vet to do.

 

[Geckolicious]

I have separated her into my hospital tank. She might not even be sick as she checked out as healthy way back when she first started making the sound. Back then I was able to afford a vet so life was much easier. The weight loss is what is concerning me, though a breeder friend said that she isn't in such bad shape that she is in any immediate danger. He said to keep an eye on her.

I just assumed the Fortaz would be a "better safe than sorry" approach to it. But we will see. I know the dosage is 20 mg/kg SQ/IM every 72 hours as I have worked with it before, just not with a bearded dragon. I assume that sub-cutaneous in the forearm is the way to go since you are farther from the kidneys and SQ is typically less painful.

The only vet in my area that works with reptiles is an hour away, does not do payment plans or accept care credit. I did call adn ask though. Well, to be fair, they might do a payment plan if I fill out their application and jump through all their hoops, but they would still require 50% of the total bill up front. They guesstimate that the exam and tests will run about $200 and then whatever the treatment course costs would be additional.

I was not aware that it was illegal to euthanize at home. My bad. If it comes to it, I will take her to the local petstore chain's vet clinic and have her put down there. I would consider taking her there for an exam but they admittedly don't deal in reptiles very often. But, like I said, she is pretty normal right now. I will keep an eye on her.

 

[monsters]

wait you have a dragon and gecko in the same tank?

 

[Geckolicious]

No, they are separate.

 

[Geckolicious]

Update with questions...

So, the vet has given her three rounds of fortaz over the last 10 days as well as a round of dewormer. She will be getting a second round of dewormer after 14 days have passed. She is still exactly the same in terms of temperament and appetite, but is still losing weight. She looks pretty thin along her tail and her hip bones are visible. The vet will want to keep on running tests, but I don't have the money to keep investing in something when he is just sort of guessing at what it could be at this point. The lab results came back relatively inconclusive from what it sounds like. She also tested positive for salmonella, but that is pretty normal I am told. Anyone have any experience with this? I don't want to keep treating her if she isn't getting any better. Every other exotic pet I have taken to the vet has yet to survive. In my experience, once they get sick it is very hard to bring them back around. Granted, it's only been twice that I have to take an exotic to the vet, but still...

 

[darkridder]

If the beardie showed no signs of worms, there really was no reason for the vet to treat her for them. And exactly how were they inconclusive? Does your vet know how to read blood panels of reptiles? Not all body levels are the same for each animal, like in birds for instance it is normal that the calcium level is higher then in species of cats and dogs. And I am wondering if your vet is a very low grade reptile vet that they do not know how to read the panel correctly. And most vets will consult other vets in their field if they are stumped. They look for answers from others instead of going....huh I dont know why. I would in the future if you do invest more in the vet (I do applaud you for taking her in), I would check out the reptile vet pages to find a more suitable reptile vet in your area, and if you find none, I can give you other hints on how to find one. If none is near, then sugest to your vet to seek advice.

Normally weight loss can be several things, liver and kidney not functioning correctly, which was why I said maybe your vet doesnt know how to read reptile blood panels.

Parasites do cause weight loss, which is why your vet is treating for them. But a fecal needs to be taken to know for sure if this is the issue, otherwise your vet is blindly treating which can cause more harm then good (esp if the kidneys ar enot functioning well).

I really would suggest you invest in some probiotics, they honestly dont cost that much. Either you can buy them online or at a health food store, just make sure that if you go to the health food store, get one that is sugar free (even without those crazy sugar substitutes). Offer this daily esp since you are on a antibiotic. A probiotic will replease all of the goog gut flora your beardie needs to stay healthy as antibiotics kills off all types of bacteria in the body, it doesnt go "oh youre the good guys" and lets them live. Offer it daily as a few drops until you are done with your meds, and continue to do it for a week afterwards. I normally offer a probiotic once a month, just keeps things healthy and running well.

Here is a question, how old is your female? Sometimes females when they are gravid (and yes they can be gravid and not look like it), they will continue to eat but not gain weight. I dont think this is the problem, but it could be a stab in the dark. If your cage is large enough, I would offer her a deep kitty litter box filled with a mix of peat moss and sand, just wet enough to clump but not drip. If she does have eggs, it will give her a place to lay.

Honestly I think it is more then likely her kidneys or liver that is the issue. Going to the vet, more then likely a new one is about the only way to know for sure, but on top of it all the resp infection (which the fortaz will clear up). But your beardie is rapidly loosing weight, even though she is acting fine is still going to cause her to go down at some point of time from lact of proper metabolizing the food into stored energy. The problem is for someone who doesnt know what they are doing, they would say offer more high protein foods. Dont, if the kidneys are not functioning right they can not process it correctly. But if the beardies kidneys are causing the protein to be in the urine, then the increase of protein will be needed. But you cant really play the guessing game when it comes to vital organs, you could possibly make the situation seriously much worse. But the thing with kidneys that you can do is adjust the veggie intake as most of the foods we offer are more basic in its chemistry then acidic, which to help with proper production of uric acid. Things like: Beets & beet greens, chard, dandelion, kale, spinach, turnip greens, are all high in purines, roaches, waxworms, silkworms, which you want to aviod.

Good foods: berries, bananas (I know normally you want to aviod fruit, but in this case fruit is a good thing, but in moderation, not a ton of fruit, but a little bit daily), bell peppers.
I am not finding alot on greens for low purine foods other then it says veggies not listed above (in the moderate to high purines). But before you decide to switch your diet, you need to know first if that is infact the problem because if it isnt, you need to keep a healthy food balanced with the normal beardie greens.

You never did address (or I missed it) on how you were reading your temps, is it by digital or stick/dial thermometer?