Snows, Codom, Line bred, Ect

[Tanggecko]

If anyone could shed some light on this for me i would appreciate it.

What is the difference between the snow lines genetically? I have a super snow that came from a line bred snow and a mack snow. How will this affect the offspring if i breed her to another mack snow? Is this a bad thing?

Ive been keeping Leopard geckos for almost 10 years but snows are fairly new to me.

Thanks for any help

 

[Halley]

Line Bred = Line Bred, just like a tang would be. Genes aren't in play

Mack Snows (Co-dom snows) are co-dom. 1 copy of the gene equals mack snow, two equals mack super snow

TUG and Gem Snows are dominate

However, if you breed a mack snow or a super mack snow to any other snow line there is a chance of getting a super snow. Nobody really knows how or why this works though, as far as i know.

 

[Tanggecko]

However, if you breed a mack snow or a super mack snow to any other snow line there is a chance of getting a super snow. Nobody really knows how or why this works though, as far as i know.

I must have one of those super snows. Im pretty sure the father of my SS is a line bred snow. The mother came from a SS to Hypo pairing.

So is this frowned on like breeding different albino strains?

I didnt even know about the other two lines. I thought it was a Hybino, Sunglow, Tanglow situation where people made a new flashy name for a morph.

 

[Halley]

it's not frowned on as far as i understand. Fallen Angle Geckos did this once (maybe more). However, i couldn't tell you the genetic probabilities of producing a mack or super snows from a super snow gecko that is from one of these crosses.

I don't know if anybody really knows. But, if they do i hope that they chime in.

 

[The Gecko Person]

Line bred have been selected to have lowered yellow pigment. They do not have genetically altered genes on the co-dominant chromosomes.
TUG snows are dominant. They are allelic to the Mack snow gene, and those two are allelic to the Gem snow gene. They affect the same chromosomes, meaning that if bred together, the offspring can receive one copy from each parent, ending with up to two altered genes on the xanthophore's chromosome. 'Super snows' have two copies of any of the mutant alleles on the same chromosome. That is why the Mack, TUG, and Gem snows are compatible.

A super/two copy form can NOT be made from a line bred snow x any of the three above.

 

[Halley]

A super/two copy form can NOT be made from a line bred snow x any of the three above.

It has been done...

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=22554

 

[The Gecko Person]

It has been done...

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=22554

I doubt it's a super snow. If it is a super snow, both of the parents are mack snows. On that thread, it says that the female was bought from somewhere else. She even looks like a mack snow to me.

Also, if it were to be possible to get a homozygous form from breeding a heterozygous to a 'line bred', you would be able to breed a mack snow to a normal that had less yellow. Line bred is not genetically/chromosomally co-dominant.
It is possible that the 'line bred snows' from Albey's line also have an allelic axanthic/hypoxanthic gene to the Mack line, but that would disqualify them as 'line bred'.

 

[Halley]

I doubt it's a super snow. If it is a super snow, both of the parents are mack snows. On that thread, it says that the female was bought from somewhere else. She even looks like a mack snow to me.

Also, if it were to be possible to get a homozygous form from breeding a heterozygous to a 'line bred', you would be able to breed a mack snow to a normal that had less yellow. Line bred is not genetically/chromosomally co-dominant.
It is possible that the 'line bred snows' from Albey's line also have an allelic axanthic/hypoxanthic gene to the Mack line, but that would disqualify them as 'line bred'.

It was a super snow http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=23021

All i am saying is that all other snow lines can produce a SS when combine with a Mack.

 

[The Gecko Person]

It was a super snow http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=23021

All i am saying is that all other snow lines can produce a SS when combine with a Mack.

Yes, that is a super snow, and no, it was not heterozygous x wild type. It was heterozygous x heterozygous. The female had an allelic snow gene.

If someone got a super from snow x normal, it would be a complete abnormality, like getting an albino from a heterozygous x wild type.

 

[The Gecko Person]

All of the snow lines are supposedly allelic. The lines are Mack, TUG, and Gem.

 

[Tanggecko]

I doubt it's a super snow. If it is a super snow, both of the parents are mack snows. On that thread, it says that the female was bought from somewhere else. She even looks like a mack snow to me.

Also, if it were to be possible to get a homozygous form from breeding a heterozygous to a 'line bred', you would be able to breed a mack snow to a normal that had less yellow. Line bred is not genetically/chromosomally co-dominant.
It is possible that the 'line bred snows' from Albey's line also have an allelic axanthic/hypoxanthic gene to the Mack line, but that would disqualify them as 'line bred'.

If the LB snow female had codom in her wouldnt their be more than one ss hatchling? She had a total of 10 hatchlings.

As for my gecko, i contacted the breeder and was told that the father of my SS female was from a Mack/LB cross. He produces almost 100% SS when paired with a codom.

Thanks for your comments

 

[The Gecko Person]

If the LB snow female had codom in her wouldnt their be more than one ss hatchling? She had a total of 10 hatchlings.

As for my gecko, i contacted the breeder and was told that the father of my SS female was from a Mack/LB cross. He produces almost 100% SS when paired with a codom.

Thanks for your comments

That is sometimes just how the odds work. An easy way to put it is that if someone bred a het. albino to a het. albino, the odds should be 25% normal, 50% het. albino, and 25% albino. Out of 8 eggs, you would not always get the statistical odds (25%) that hatch as albinos.
If someone were to take a known het. albino, and breed it to a het. 'line bred albino' (bred for light color), you would not get albinos.

If someone has a 'line' of snows that can be bred to a known co-dominant lineage and produce the two copy form, it has to be allelic, meaning that it is proven genetically dominant/co-dominant if it produces the 'super' form.

What I think happened is that the 'line bred snows' are genetically different. The name just throws people off, and they are actually genetic, not line bred.
Another possibility is that someone used one of the other, genetically proven lines, and selectively bred them for hypoxanthic, making them seem line-bred, even though they originated from a genetically compatible/allelic hypoxanthic.

 

[The Gecko Person]

I also think that the line bred snow page of the wiki's morph page should be changed. It can be changed by anyone, from what I have heard, and what is written on there now is not correct.
I'm not sure how the author got '6.25%', but they didn't explain it, and it seems more like they published a mistake from a genetics calculator.

 

[LoveGeckos.com]

I also think that the line bred snow page of the wiki's morph page should be changed. It can be changed by anyone, from what I have heard, and what is written on there now is not correct.
I'm not sure how the author got '6.25%', but they didn't explain it, and it seems more like they published a mistake from a genetics calculator.

I wouldn't so be quick to blame a Genetics Calculator

I does however seem to have been plucked from mid air.

 

[The Gecko Person]

I'm not sure how the author got '6.25%', but they didn't explain it, and it seems more like they published a mistake from a genetics calculator.

I wouldn't so be quick to blame a Genetics Calculator

I does however seem to have been plucked from mid air.

I wasn't blaming any calculator, I was saying that it seems like they published a mistake that they made, using a genetics calculator. The reason I say that is that genetics are calculated in (punnett) squares. 1/16th is equal to 6.25%, and is the result of breeding two double heterozygously recessives.

 

[LoveGeckos.com]

and it seems more like they published a mistake from a genetics calculator.

Maybe I read it wrong, but it was said in jest anyway ;-)

What I am more interested in is your take on the genetics behind the snows.

Now all that you have mentioned before I agree with, genetically.

However, lets say you crossed a Tug with a Mack and produced a Super. You then bred the Super to a Wild Type, what would you expect?

I am guessing you may suggest, Tugs and Macks. I don't think that is the case based on extensive test breeding that I have done, but I would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
Andy

 

[The Gecko Person]

However, lets say you crossed a Tug with a Mack and produced a Super. You then bred the Super to a Wild Type, what would you expect?

I am guessing you may suggest, Tugs and Macks. I don't think that is the case based on extensive test breeding that I have done, but I would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
Andy

The Mack snow and TUG snow lines are supposedly compatible. One gene on each allele is inherited from each parent, meaning that from a TUG x Mack cross, the alleles would line up in certain combinations, and the offspring would be the result of the combinations of alleles.
A super from a TUG x Mack bred to a normal should produce 50% TUG snow, and 50% Mack snow.
Of course there could be other odds, and like flipping a coin, there is not a guarantee on getting 50% of both. You could easily hatch only Mack snows, or only TUG snows.
What do the results of your test breeding show?