SSTA vs. Super Raptor

[Halley]

Okay this just occurred to me. I was wondering how it is possible for a super raptor to be patternless, when a SSTA has a pattern. Really the only difference in the genes is that the super raptor has the eclipse eye. Don’t all SS have this trait though? Is the reason for this, just the simple fact, that R.A.P.T.O.R. is a patternless morph, for the most part?

 

[malt_geckos]

A Super Raptor is a super snow raptor. The patternless part of the raptor gene takes over the SS gene and washes out the spotting. A SSTA on the other hand isn't patternless at all because Tremper albinos and super snows aren't patternless morphs.

 

[supperl]

Okay this just occurred to me. I was wondering how it is possible for a super raptor to be patternless, when a SSTA has a pattern. Really the only difference in the genes is that the super raptor has the eclipse eye. Don’t all SS have this trait though? Is the reason for this, just the simple fact, that R.A.P.T.O.R. is a patternless morph, for the most part?

As said bevor jsut take a look on a Raptor and than on a normal albino. THe raptor is patternless the normal Albino can be banded or so.
A SSTA is a SS as Albino a normal SS hat pattern same as an Albino so we have pattern on the SSA.
THe SSRaptor has none as the Raptor itself has none. on the SS we only see the black patterns not the yellow or tangerine ones but these are the only things that can be seen on a Raptor so we have a patternless one.

THan yea all SS have eclipse eyes. But you can see a Tremper SS hat black yes and a Bell SS has red eyesx. the Eclispe gene from the Raptor morph will make a Tremper eye look ruby, too and so a SS Eclipse Tremper Albino has red eyes and a SSTremper has black ones or at least dark ones(That is what I´ve seen on my geckos).

Best wishes
Thorsten

 

[paulnj]

SS raptor has the dots of the SSTA, BUT HAS THE LOOK OF THE ECLIPSE

White nose is a marker for the eclipse gene

 

[Halley]

SS raptor has the dots of the SSTA, BUT HAS THE LOOK OF THE ECLIPSE

White nose is a marker for the eclipse gene

Okay Paul, your knowledge is just too much for me. So now I have another question for you. Is the only difference the white nose? And don’t super raptors have less of a pattern?

 

[paulnj]

Matt (SaSobek) posted an image of Alberto's adult male SS raptor he is proving out not too long ago.

 

[godzillizard]

The Raptor is actually a hypo/stripe, not a new "patternless" I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but if Raptors were patternless, the super snow form would be completely spotless white...it's the hypo trait from the Raptor that causes the SSRaptor to still develop some faint pattern...

Also, a super Raptor can produce all known patterns--jungles, stripes, reverse stripes and patternless stripes--a regular SSTA does not carry all those genes/traits, and can't produce the crazy variaition that the raptor version would--for that reason, I like to think of the Raptor as a "super" Tremper.

 

[ThunderGekko]

I also have an animal I believe to be a mack super snow raptor....
This animal is completely white, with complete red eyes, no pattern at all....

It hatched from 2 macks het. Raptor, and I hope to prove her out this year.....

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Yes it is because the Aptor/Patternless Stripe trait removes patterning on the "best" examples of the morph, and in combo morphs.

if Raptors were patternless, the super snow form would be completely spotless white

There are many Patternless Striped/Aptor geckos that do have some patterning, mostly they look a lot like Reverse Stripes, without a full Reverse Stripe, but there are different variations IMO. Also they normally change alot as they grow. I have seen fully "patternless" ones go fully spotted, and vice versa. I think of it as an "aberrancy" of the typical expression. When you see the "normal"(not banded) patterns broken up, dotted/dashed, and/or non-asymetrical, that is very likely an "Aptor" or "Patternless Designer", because they simply are not all without pattern. Ron Tremper never even sold them as such. Super Snows can sometimes have similar "splotchey" patterns, so I think there could be alot of different outcomes, when it comes to combining the two.

not a new "patternless"

For many reasons, and also the fact that we are able to make a "Patternless" Super Snow, Super Snow Albino, or just about any other morph, I have to disagree. The Aptor/Raptor traits work like recessive genes, they are however not simple recessives. They carry all of the other patterning traits as well, since they come from the combination of those genes.

It has been proven that the Aptor`s pattern and "Patternless Stripe" trait, are one in the same. We created the "Patternless Stripes" from breeding Red Stripe to Reverse Stripe Albino. These geckos were not related to any R/Aptors, but they proved how the Aptor/Raptor morph was created. They were bred together, and also to Raptors, and produced "Raptor/Eclipse" geckos, which proved the theory. So that is why when I refer to the non-Albino "Aptor" types as "Patternless Stripes", or "Patternless Red Stripes".

So it is proven that the "Raptor", and all of the patterning traits(including "patternless stripe") work just like recessive genes, unless bred together, since they are related. This is the first and only cooperating recessive in Leopard Geckos in my opinion.

Stripes/Reverse Stripes had to have come from somewhere, and they were a "new" type, which came from Jungles/Stripes way back when. Why is it not possible that a "new" type cropped up out of the Stripes/Reverse Stripes? That`s what the "Patternless Stripe" project taught us, and it fits the definition of a co-recessive, actually. Co-recessive means: "when two or more recessive genes exist polygenically". One type would be the "super" form of the one before it.