Supplment video isn't this cool?

[thegeckoguy23]

Well I always say one day I'm gonna put this video on you tube (I just got the ok from matt to put it up here) And I think this might be a good idea.


Like he says do make this into a complete contraverse. I well be trying this out because obivusley its okay because he has 100's of geckos.


Jake


[YT]-PuC7EMWDYo[/YT]

 

[BrilliantEraser]

Interesting. Just wondering, how does the Repti-Sand help to break down the vitamin/calcium? I don't know what the Repti-Sand is made up of, so I'm basically just looking to sate my curiosity here.

Other than that, where can one obtain Vionate? I've never heard of it before. If it's a cheaper alternative to Herpvite and all others like it, then I'm willing to look into it!

 

[Tony C]

I don't know what the Repti-Sand is made up of, so I'm basically just looking to sate my curiosity here.

Repti-sand is a natural quartz sand. I'm not sure what purpose it is supposed to serve in a supplement since it is insoluble.

Other than that, where can one obtain Vionate?

I think Robin uses Vionate and Osteoform, shoot her a message about it.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

Interesting. Just wondering, how does the Repti-Sand help to break down the vitamin/calcium? I don't know what the Repti-Sand is made up of, so I'm basically just looking to sate my curiosity here.

Other than that, where can one obtain Vionate? I've never heard of it before. If it's a cheaper alternative to Herpvite and all others like it, then I'm willing to look into it!

I have seen it at Pro geckos but its pretty darn exspinsive there. You can check Here or use This


Hope this helps, Jake

 

[thegeckoguy23]

Repti-sand is a natural quartz sand. I'm not sure what purpose it is supposed to serve in a supplement since it is insoluble.



I think Robin uses Vionate and Osteoform, shoot her a message about it.

I think he ment that it helps brake down food or something it must work sense he has used it for yrs with 100's of geckos.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Just wondering, how does the Repti-Sand help to break down the vitamin/calcium?

It doesn't. That contention is just nonsensical.

Looks like a scenario where someone has somehow latched onto an inaccurate idea and then held onto it because they have not gotten any evidence to the contrary. Voluntary consumption of a minute amount of sand hasn't manifested as a problem for them, so they just keep doing it.

It contributes absolutely nothing nutritionally and won't change the absorption rate, digestibility or chemical composition of the actual, useful, supplements that are being used. It is an inert ingredient.

My question would be... where did anyone get the idea that it would be something they should do in the first place?

I think he ment that it helps brake down food or something it must work sense he has used it for yrs with 100's of geckos.

A&M are good people who work with some amazing animals- in this specific instance however, knowing what I know about the physiology involved, I can say that the sand contributes nothing of significant value and is entirely unnecessary. It's basic chemistry... that said, people can get all kinds of strange ideas and form all kinds of odd conclusions based observational evidence- this is hardly the most bizarre thing to crop up. Still nonsensical though.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

It doesn't. That contention is just nonsensical.

Looks like a scenario where someone has somehow latched onto an inaccurate idea and then held onto it because they have not gotten any evidence to the contrary. Voluntary consumption of a minute amount of sand hasn't manifested as a problem for them, so they just keep doing it.

It contributes absolutely nothing nutritionally and won't change the absorption rate, digestibility or chemical composition of the actual, useful, supplements that are being used. It is an inert ingredient.

My question would be... where did anyone get the idea that it would be something they should do in the first place?

I would like to keep this thread non contravercl but honstly you would have to give him a PM he has a reptile culture with the same name as his youtube name or you can PM him on youtube if you have those.


Jake

 

[Tony C]

Discussion is not controversy, and it would be irresponsible to disallow comments on the potential safety and effectiveness of the methods presented in this video or any other.

 

[BrilliantEraser]

Hm. If it's the idea that it helps to break down food, perhaps they got the idea from birds eating gravel (stored in the croup to act as mechanical digestion)? And I do agree with the idea that "Just because someone's been doing it forever doesn't mean they're doing something right." It's something I see a lot in abuse/neglect cases for animals. :sad:

But if there is actual scientific proof that it helps, then I would like to learn about it! As it stands, I'm just a bit confused right now.

Also, thanks for posting the links Jake! Two pounds of Vionate costs WAY less than two pounds of Herpvite would cost. I'll have to check the guaranteed analysis and see if it fits my animals' needs.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Hm. If it's the idea that it helps to break down food, perhaps they got the idea from birds eating gravel (stored in the croup to act as mechanical digestion)?

Some- few- reptiles do something similar. Crocodilians have been observed swallowing rocks for that purpose.

The thing is though... mechanically mashing food into a more digestible form (increasing surface area really) requires more than just the presence of those harder elements. It requires movement to agitate the mix and cause the physical change to the shape and consistency of the digestible material. Squatama- lizards and snakes, have pretty minimal peristalsis (the involuntary muscle waves that move and crush food in the digestive tract) relative to many other vertabrate animals.

Even if sand were capable of assisting with that kind of physical breakdown- which is pretty much is not if it is consumed in the amounts the video indicated- the digestive tract of a gecko is not going to produce the movement necessary to get that rock tumbler effect.

Nor are the geckos consuming items which need to be broken down in that manner in order to be digested, seeds eaten by birds are a dense, rigid, not-too-digestible shell surrounding nutritional goodness, large prey items eaten by adult crocodilians are often swallowed almost intact in a binge feeding behavior and represent a large amount of food containing some dense connective and skeletal tissue. The exo-skeleton on a cricket or mealworm? Not even close to being a problem, it is pretty easily broken down through enzyme action.

And I do agree with the idea that "Just because someone's been doing it forever doesn't mean they're doing something right." It's something I see a lot in abuse/neglect cases for animals.

I don't think that this is abusive or neglectful. Just kind of pointless. It benefits nothing. It harms nothing.

 

[BrilliantEraser]

I didn't mean to say that it was abusive or neglectful, sorry for the confusion! I just meant to say that I hear it a lot in neglect cases, and that's what it made me think of at the moment.