Taboo: Euthenasia discussion

[tb144050]

I have read that there are several inhumane ways to euthanize (freezing, break the spinal cord, damage to the brain, even CO2 is said to be the least humane).

I don't want to start a debate over the least humane method, because I KNOW that the most humane method is done properly at a vet. However, I wanted to discuss a theory I just had.
--------------------------------------------

Has anyone induced brumation in a refrigerator and then continued brumation in a ziploc bag? Is this essentially a CO2-suffocation while in a deep sleep? Is this likely to be relatively painless?

 

[sausage]

burmation is not like hibernation, they dont 'go to sleep'. burmation is just a state of reduce activity and eating, in my experience the reptiles iv had tend to just slow or stop eating but are still kind of active in respects that they are still out and about in their vivs.
so to answer your question, no it would not be pain free.
i am assuming that you wish to euthanasie a leo? why not just take it to the vets to be done properly. its not expensive if your worried about money.

 

[tb144050]

I've read that 40-degree-F refrigerator temps will put then in a deep sleep. Is that not true? And yes, i am facing a decision for my sick juvenikes. :'''(

 

[sausage]

reptiles are built to withstand temperature fluctuations to a point as they would naturally encounter extreme temperature drops in the wild. as far as i have been taught in my degree refrigeration would cause their vital organs to slowly begin to shut down, this would be a very slow, painful and terrifying death.
i would urge you to do it properly if you are to do it atal. death is seen as being humane when nothing else can be done, however if the means of death is painful or inflicts any degree of suffering no matter how small it is inhumane.

 

[Ozy]

I've read your other board and now this. If you aren't willing to take them to the vet to get proper care or AT LEAST spend $10 to let the vet euthanize it.. You are a horrible person. Straight up. If you can't/won't take a pet to the vet when it's sick, then you don't need to have pets. You could have even just given them away to someone who would provide them the medical care they need. But NOOOOO.. And now you're talking about putting them in a refrigerator?!?!?! How would you like someone to stuff you in a refrigerator, then cram you in a zip loc bag and put you in the freezer?!?! I don't care if you don't like it. You really disgust me. I'm out.

 

[tb144050]

And yes, i am facing a decision for my sick juvenikes. :'''(

The vet is still an option. I am here asking because I don't want them to suffer anymore or at all. I could just let them loose outside and let nature take it's course, but I am trying to find a way to cause them no more suffering.

I have been reading how different methods cause pain, and I find them unacceptable. Humans use carbon monoxide detectors to prevent us from dieing in our sleep. I was trying to figure out if the same "passing away while you sleep" could be accomplished by brumation & sealed container.

If you are done calling me a horrible person, I am willing to let someone else "provide them the medical care they need", but I don't know anyone who is willing to pay vet bills for maybe 20years for 3 geckos that are wasting away to try and control the crypto outbreak to a "not fatal, just painful" quality of life.

 

[Snuffles379]

The vet is still an option. I am here asking because I don't want them to suffer anymore or at all. I could just let them loose outside and let nature take it's course, but I am trying to find a way to cause them no more suffering.

Though I may not agree with your situation I understand that you're coming here trying to find the best outcome with in your means. That being said, please don't discredit any opinions you receive here based on the users negative views on your situation. There is a reason that people react so strongly to your suggestions, because they are absolutely inhumane. That's not a judgement on you, it's simply an answer to whether they would be a kind method of euthanasia, a freezer or letting it loose outside would be a cruel death.

The very bottom line is that you absolutely must take them to a vet. Letting them loose outside is not allowing nature to take its course, it's not nature if you're introducing a helpless animal to a foreign environment. That would be the same as you opting to "break its spinal cord" except you do not directly have to view the outcome, so it is only kinder for you and not the reptile. Putting a leopard gecko in a freezer may seem like a humane option but it is not. As others have said they would not simply go to sleep, it would be a very painful process so please do not do this.

A vet will only want what is best for the pet so the euthanasia they suggest will be FAR more humane then any methods you've suggested. It is debatable whether their methods are the best but it is not debatable if their methods would be best for your reptiles in your current situation. Like others have said, it is not expensive and if you're willing to provide care for your pet and you honestly care about the well being of your geckos then spend the small amount of money to take them to a vet.

I did not read your other posts, however, if there is a chance these geckos could have a good quality of life in the care of someone else with the means to take care of them then please look into surrendering them to another, more capable owner, before resorting to euthanasia. It would only take calls to your local animal rescues and vets to see if there is a reptile rescue or an interested party willing to take care of them. Once again, if you really do care about the well being of these animals then you would first exhaust all of these options before euthanizing.

EDIT: I looked a bit at your other post just to see what problems your geckos were having. Your leo's do not look like they are past the point of help, they actually look relatively healthy. They are even occasionally eating and do not seem to have many physical symptoms. I hope you're considering euthanasia as a very last ditch option, unless they have taken a very dramatic turn for the worst recently and appear to be physically in pain. Leo's are hardy and can make a very successful comeback after sickness so euthanasia would be the best option only if they were in a great amount of pain and not going to recover. I, myself, have been dealing with eating issue with my leo but leopard geckos are definitely not the easiest pet to care for. They take patience and time. I have been dealing and have dealt with similar issues my leo's entire life and he has still led a happy and comfortable life for over fourteen years. However, if you're not willing to spend the time and occasional money (because there is a chance that with in the next ten-fifteen years they will get sick and you will have to bring them to a vet) on nursing your leo's back to health then I go back to my previous suggestion of finding someone else who is willing to properly care for them. I think with the right mind set you could give them a long life, especially considering how much time you've put into looking into their issues so far which is a lot more then I believe most people do.

 

[tb144050]

Aura passed away last night. A pretty sucky way for my son to remember Christmas morning. I'll be calling the local vets Monday to see if they can atleast euthanize geckos since I already know they don't "see"geckos.

 

[Snuffles379]

I'm really very sorry to hear that, at least you know that you did everything you could do. It's always hard to see a pet go and you'd be surprised how many people rather euthanize prematurely instead of trying everything they can to save a pet in order to spare themselves the heartbreak.

I didn't realize you had not visited a reptile vet, I know it may be a bit late for this but I have to ask in case nobody else has, have you tried to search to see if there are any reptile vets or rescues in your area? I had to consult this resource to find anywhere near me as all local vets were completely clueless when it came to my leo Arav ? Find a Vet
Once again, I'm really sorry about your gecko. I can't help but hope, for your sons sake, that you might get lucky and find a reptile vet who may have a fast remedy for your two other leo's.

 

[tb144050]

I was checking to see if my last reply posted (because I am on a mobile device with little service coverage) and I saw your edit.All 5 of my sick ones were bought from the same store within a short time:G1: Ninja (sticktail, my wife's bought a schoolroom pet) ...he never ate and never moved. My wife asked me to return him and exchange for a lookalike.G2: Ninja ver2.0. I took home a lookalike, still not award that a sticktail is soooooo bad. G3,4, and 5. Karma Aura and Rex. I bought them and started a home collection because I started taking interest.G6. Ninja ver3.0. I exchanged her Ninja ver2,0 for store credit and I returned on "Truck-delivery day" and picked out a plump active juvenile. He has been doing great....active, exploring, eagerly eating 15 crickets daily. (We stop feeding at 15-20.)G7. Unnamed dark blizzard (?). Same healthy normal behavior as G6, but bought at a different chainstore. Also, I was in the original petstore 2 days ago to get crickets. They have the gecko/lizard tanks completely empty with a sign that said researved on each one. I didn't even ask about the empty tanks, but I asked what I can do about my entire tank setup probably needing to be scrapped because they are sick. He easily replaced $200 worth of tank-setup so I put them in a 10 gallon divided tank.I have my reasons to believe they are infected with a highly contagious and fatal parasite. I would suggest euthenasia for their good and the good of all other geckos the owner owns...Her 3rd Ninja is still in the same tank as the 2 sticktails, but I hope the ammonia killed 100% parasites. Unnamed blizzard is in an untainted brand new 10g tank. Rex and Karma are in the divided older 10g, and my new replacement 20g-long tank and all replaced equipment will sit untouched until I have quarantined future females.

 

[tb144050]

I'm really very sorry to hear that, at least you know that you did everything you could do. It's always hard to see a pet go and you'd be surprised how many people rather euthanize prematurely instead of trying everything they can to save a pet in order to spare themselves the heartbreak.I didn't realize you had not visited a reptile vet, I know it may be a bit late for this but I have to ask in case nobody else has, have you tried to search to see if there are any reptile vets or rescues in your area? I had to consult this resource to find anywhere near me as all local vets were completely clueless when it came to my leo Arav ? Find a Vet Once again, I'm really sorry about your gecko. I can't help but hope, for your sons sake, that you might get lucky and find a reptile vet who may have a fast remedy for your two other leo's.

yeah, i have searched, googled, and called all the local vets and rescues. Only one even volunteered to "consult her reference materials" even though they dont "see" geckos. She called me back later and said i needed to use my uvb bulb (that came with the 20g bearded dragon terrarium kit) and that d3 dusting wasnt correct. She was willing to take fecals and mail them off for "diagnostics."I think the store employees are really clueless or just covered it up after having to realize how many of there geckos were sicj & dying. They ALL acted like they never even heard of a gecko getting sick from anything ever. And i didnt make a scene with the manager. I was polite and he eagerly agreed to replace every bit of my equipment and said he would replace the geckos (in my 10gal now) but i didnt trust anything they would do: freezer or put back into population for sale...like they did with the first 2 sticktails i saw back in the tank. (unless of course they were just MORE sticktails for sale).I really think i will use any store credit for supplies only, and order my next geckos from a breeder. I want albino females to breed to my dark blizzard...gotta research alot more first. But i also have to euthanize or take quarantined care of karma and rex until they pass......while hoping my new blizzard doesnt get it. That ammonia really burns because of all the cuts on my hands from my job. And i ammonia-wash everytime i touch ANYTHING of karma/rex's.

 

[sausage]

im so sorry to hear that one passed .
D3 dusting is correct as its vital for the uptake of calcium into the body other wise it asses straight through. you can use a UVB bulb but it has to be no stronger the 2% and only on for 2 or 3 hours a day.
F10 is a good disinfectant to use i use it all the time. you can use it diluted or watered down and you can spray in with no need to rinse off as its safe for animals.
if i was you i would have separate tools for the new one and have it in a different room just to make sure.

 

[tb144050]

What happens if you leave a UVB on for 10-12 hours a day? (if I had listened to her)

I went to that petstore today to buy supplies and get my son a guinea. It looks like they re-opened the lizard/gecko cases and still have "still-tails" in there. I don't know if it will show in the pic, but I used MS-Paint to put a red circle around the only one that was visible.

 

[tb144050]

At the top-left of the branch, that is not a twig or a vine. It's a stick-tail gecko.

 

[sausage]

if you leave the UVB on to many hours you could damage their skin or cause an overdose of vitamin D3.

 

[tb144050]

I was guessing d3 overdose but i didnt consider burns. Im just glad i didnt do it.