The Great Stripe Debate

[Ipsl]

Well here it comes. You will all be glad to know that Im almost complete with the EASY part of my Leo Specific Punnent Square system!!:main_thumbsup: :main_thumbsup:
Now the fun part. :main_rolleyes:
So far heres some interesting background

PRO:
http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=15690&highlight=Stripe+Recessive
and
the murphy patternless gene will cover up the stripe / reverse stripe pattern.
http://www.geckoforums.net/showthrea...ighlight=EMBER


suggesting they're on same loci if it is in fact genetic. (and apparently the patternless comes from stripe and reverse stripe which makes patternless stripe in an APTOR (waiting for verification)So ladies and gents lets hear (read) your two cents. Now ONE ground rule: This thread is made to show VALID information and scientific/ genetic experience with those who do have experience. I wont name names but there are some who I would concider "athorities" on this so lets play nice.:main_thumbsup:

 

[Ipsl]

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?p=74543&page=2

This is interesting read too. It Implies that an (R)APTOR is in fact a rev stripe. NOT a combination of a rev stripe and stripe.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I do not think anyone meant to imply that Patternless Stripe or Aptor is just a Reverse Stripe. I did not read every post work for word, so I could be wrong. I do know that many of them start out like Reverse Stripes, and change quite a bit.

I do believe that you need to have Reverse Stripe OR Stripe genes to get them, but breeding the two together gives you much a greater chance at PS. Stripe X Reverse Stripe definitely does make PS, which is the same pattern an Aptor has. Our original Patternless Stripes were even proven to be "het" for Raptor, and they were`nt even related. There is really no other way to explain that one...

It is good news tho`, as we will now be able to breed more Red Stripe influence into them!

As far as regular jungles/stripes, and reverse stripes genes go, they do work like recessive traits, but they are not each their own simple recessive trait. If they were all separate recessive genes, we would not be able to hatch a "new" pattern, or any pattern for that matter, breeding two of the different patterns together. We would get banded/aberrant hets, like we do if we breed one of these patterns to let`s say a Murphy`s Patternless.

Not sure what you mean because, Murphy`s are not related to the Aptor, "Patternless Stripe", or any other pattern of Leo, and they are not affected very much in appearance by any other morph aside from the Enigma. Otherwise Patternless will pretty much have the same appearance, no matter what.

 

[Ipsl]

Well the link and the quote i didnt put in quotations, my fault, imply that stripes are not genetic. when you breed pattys to any albino or a blizzard both traits show, banana blizzards for example. So it either means its on the loci as murphys genes are. Does that sound right?

And as far as my rev stripe APTOR statement. All the outcomes had rev stripes and not stripes. if in fact both were genetic than both would show in offspring, meaning some rev stripes and some stripes, this was not the case. Now another possibility, not all the way thought out yet, is that the stripes and rev strips are the same thing and one is an albino form kinda-deal thingy.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

So it either means its on the loci as murphys genes are. Does that sound right?

I am not sure about this part, but Murphy`s are not a pattern morph, so they could not display patterns either way. You can have a homozygous Patternless Albino, or Blazing Blizzard, but you cannot really have a Patternless w/ visible striping, of course some Patternless do have some pattern to them. You could probably have a Patternless "homozygous" for Stripe or whatever, but would not be able to tell without test breeding. Even something like a Banana Blizzard is hard to tell apart from a Blizzard or Patty.

Stripes are genetic, but in the "pure" Raptor project Patternless Stripe and Reverse Stripe are produced more often. Same goes for my original Patternless Red Stripes, when bred to an Aptor, even though I know they carry striped genes too.

When I bred Aptor to Red Stripe, out came the Stripes, and now they are produced more often in our project.

stripes and rev strips are the same thing and one is an albino form

Nope, Albino Stripes and Reverse Stripes look as different as normal Stripes and Reverse Stripes.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

apparently the patternless comes from stripe and reverse stripe which makes patternless stripe in an APTOR

ONLY the albino forms of stripe/reverse stripe.

the murphy patternless gene will cover up the stripe / reverse stripe pattern.

The Murphy Patternless is a completely different, non-albino simple recessive morph. ANY combination of the Murphy Patternless gene with ANY morph other than another Murphy Patternless will only produce heterozygous offspring. The Murphy Patternless gene has no influence on the pattern of these hets.

I wish the the 'P' in APTOR/RAPTOR was something other than 'patternless'. It confuses people with the Murphy Patternless.

 

[tangerineman]

this is for Paul Sage...

Hi paul, just curious about that bold stripe x red stripe cross, and very curious what the parents looked like, is it possible to post them here, I am probably not the only one interested...

thanks
Duane

I had crossed stripe to reverse stripe (het eclipse) last season,
(and gotten the PRS, PS, and others)

as well as mack poss het raptor to stripe,
and gotten mack, non mack PS (patternless stripe), and others...

but I have a red stripe (dual dorsal stripes) that I am trying to decide what to do with to get the most interesting outcomes...

 

[Ipsl]

Now the thing is I havent seen ANY post of two RAPTORS making tremper stripes, just rev stripes so, to me, that says that theres NO stripe in RAPTORS or APTORS. I have allready provided the link.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

This quote says it all. You just kind of have to trust my experience on this. "In the "pure" Raptor project Patternless Stripe and Reverse Stripe are produced more often." Meaning they are the more dominant appearance. For whatever reason, that is the way it is.

Patternless Stripe is the same exact thing as a non-Albino Aptor(het Raptor). This has been proven.

And here is the history:
The original "Patternless Stripes"(produced by Alberto and myself in`05) were not related to the Aptors or Raptors, and came from Red Stripe X Reverse Stripe Albino. It just so happens we found out what made the Aptor, and Raptor, because when breeding PRS geckos together, or to Raptors, "Raptors" are produced.

Like I said above also, when I bred the PRS geckos to an Aptor, I only hatched PRS, and Reverse Stripes... and I know for a fact that my geckos came from a striped parent because I was the one that hatched them. This has all been proven.

Here are a few of my 2005 Aptor X Red Stripe babies, which also proved Aptors carry striped genes.

 

[Ipsl]

I dont argue and it sounds true but let me ask just for asking sake. Has there ever been a proven double het rev stripe and het strip? or a proven patternless het stripe, double het stripe etc..? Im not questioning Im just now saying if it is in fact on the same loci as lets say the pattern less gene.

 

[godzillizard]

The murphy patternless locus is near the Tremper albino locus, that is why Tremper patternless albinos were so incredibly hard to produce from scratch (hets).

My original Aptor project male (he's a giant 'abberrant' banded albino het Aptor) produces both striped and reverse striped offspring.

Also, I bred my Raptor to a couple Tremper patternless albino females, and produced some really pretty jungle double hets...so those female TPAs were carrying jungle genes...

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Yes, the Aptor X Red Stripes I just posted, were proven to be het for just about everything, when I bred those back to an Aptor and to some Raptors.