Treating parasites (pinworms)

[indyana]

Not asking for a treatment plan, as I have a vet for that, but I'm more asking if there's anything I should know about administering worming medication or treating pinworms. As a bit of background, I recently had my two lizards to the vet for a general checkup and fecal testing, and both testing positive for pinworms. After my vet consulted with an exotics specialist, he decided we should treat the pinworms. The worming medication is on special order, as it needed to be compounded, so I haven't started treatment yet. It should be ready next week.

Some discussion starters:

• Cautions when administering medicine
• Are there side effects I should watch out for?
• Should I expect behavior changes during the treatment?
• How should I handle sanitizing the enclosures? As in:
  • Method (what is sure to remove/kill pinworms and eggs)
  • Timing (a certain amount of time after last dose...?)

Feel free to share any experiences with treating parasites. This is the first time I'll be going through this. It wasn't an issue when I only had one, asymptomatic lizard, but now that I have two and would like to get more, I need to start managing parasites more rigorously...

 

[Olympus]

Pinworms thankfully are not tough parasites to get rid off, one or two rounds of something like panacur (or whatever you're being prescribed) is enough to knock them out. The most common symptom of these types of medicine is a lack of appetite, some reptiles will stop eating as much but that shouldn't be a problem for an otherwise healthy animal. It should pick right back up after the treatment is finished usually.

If yours maintains an appetite I usually will inject the medicine into a bug (your vet will give you needles if you tell them you'll do this), usually a nice big cricket or butterworm) and tong feed it to the reptile. This means they get their medicine but I didn't have to force their mouth open, which usually means it's a happier experience for everyone!

As far as disinfecting, something like bleach will usually do the trick to kill any eggs that might be in the enclosure. Pinworm eggs are temperature and light sensitive as well, so it's a good idea to wash everything down in hot water with bleach and then let everything air dry outside in the sun. The tripple-wammy should be enough to destroy any worms and eggs. Keep washing everything regularly until you get a clean fecal and you know that the infestation is gone.

Good luck!

 

[indyana]

Thanks for the tips, Oli!

Just out of curiosity, how do you manage parasites in your collection? There seems to be a lot of different opinions on it. Some people don't test or worm unless a reptile becomes symptomatic, other people test and worm on a set schedule... Just thinking ahead, since I know it's possible that they could become reinfected at some point, despite my best efforts.

 

[rothsauce]

Thanks for the tips, Oli!

Just out of curiosity, how do you manage parasites in your collection? There seems to be a lot of different opinions on it. Some people don't test or worm unless a reptile becomes symptomatic, other people test and worm on a set schedule... Just thinking ahead, since I know it's possible that they could become reinfected at some point, despite my best efforts.

Also wondering about this, even with only one gecko myself, i would rather not have to go through the dread of a vet visit or have the nagging 'what if' at the back of the mind.
Also not too fond of crickets, knowing that they can be more likely to cause such issues doesn't add in their favor!

 

[Olympus]

With established reptiles I usually take in or do my own fecal exams about twice a year, just to keep an eye on things. Right now I have 7 reptiles, so it's not too much work. You can get parasites easily even just from store-bought crickets, so it's almost unavoidable that reptiles will have something at one point or another in their lives! Pinworms and such are mild, but something like coccidia can be tough to fight and potentially life-threatening if left too long so I want to catch the bad stuff early.

With the type of chameleon I keep it's almost unavoidable that I have WC animals in the house too, so with any new individuals I will keep them in a very strict quarantine for 3 months, during which time I run at least 3 fecal exams, to make sure their systems are a clean slate before they join the others (the chameleons all share a free-range "cage") I usually do something similar with any new geckos as well because they live together too. Although quarantine is a good idea in general, even if you keep animals separate

I've lost animals to parasite complications so I'm maybe more proactive than most!

 

[rothsauce]

Are dubia roaches or mealworms known to be more likely carriers for any types of parasites?

 

[Olympus]

Hmm I don't actually know, I've never seen anyone test them. I would assume that they probably do but I don't know that for certain. To be on the safe side I would still get geckos tested at least occassionaly even if they're on a 100% mealworm diet

 

[rothsauce]

Agreed on the testing regardless. Would just be curious to see if crickets pose more of a threat for pinworms and other parasites over other feeders, and/or how susceptible the other feeders could be as parasitic carriers.
Such information is intriguing, and would guide a decision for what feeders I would feed a reptile more or less of.

 

[indyana]

Any insect can act as a vector for parasites. I think crickets get to be a scapegoat species because they are often raised in unsanitary conditions, but if you do a Google search for "roach parasites" or "mealworm parasites", you'll find that none of the feeders are parasite free. Properly sourcing food items is more important in the long run than sticking to a particular insect species, but I haven't been able to find any feeder suppliers that say they test their stock regularly or guarantee no parasites.

I think that after this, I'll definitely be getting my boys tested at least one per year. It won't guarantee no parasites, but it will at least keep the parasite load low...

 

[rothsauce]

Indeed, and I'd done a search prior to the inquiry but there wasn't really anything conclusive.
Mites came up for mealies, but it didn't seem like the worms themselves were ever the cause. Mostly the bedding they were stored in/with. Other than that it seems like their adult stage is more likely to carry anything, and for some reason poultry seem to be in the most danger of catching anything parasitic from them. That's really all I could find :/
Haven't looked into dubias yet.

I'll have to ask a local shop if they test their supplies, I think they do farm crickets and other feeders but am not entirely sure.
Just waiting for the weekend to wrap up to check in with a vet to see what services they offer in-house for reptiles.

 

[Olympus]

I have a biologist friend that once ordered a box of crickets from all the major cricket suppliers, all the names people on this forum have probably used, and tested samples from each source. ALL the crickets he sampled came back positive for something, some even with coccidia! There's a myth that you'll only get parasites from feeding WC insects but that's obviously not true. So it's definitely a good idea to check occasionally and stay ahead of things getting out of hand.

But it's true that crickets are usually kept in less than desirable conditions! I once received a young chameleon with a respiratory infection. My vet took a swab from the mouth to run a culture to see what exactly we were fighting and among the usual infection bugs present he had a mouth-full of E-coli! That's not something that lives in reptile mouths usually, so the vet and I knew it came from my newly ordered crickets.

There definitely aren't a lot of pros on the list to use crickets besides convenience! Lol If I could switch to roaches as my main non-worm feeder I would, but living in Florida it's tough to order FL-legal species like discoids in bulk. But oh well, the ones I have are breeding, slowly but surely.

 

[indyana]

Yeah, the only reason I really include crickets is for diet variety... I don't really like keeping them. I suppose I could switch to canned crickets only, with the idea that the cooking/canning process would kill parasites. But there's absolutely no guarantee that any other feeders I order won't be carrying parasites, so I still have to test my reptiles periodically.

 

[rothsauce]

It would be interesting if some interested parties tried to breed out the omnivorous nature in crickets to a veggie and fruit diet.
With so many tests for mammals and such, I wonder what kinds of things people could do with bugs and feeders? Would be nice to have another non-worm alternative that were a bit nicer on the wallet, and less of a threat for infectious parasites.
Are dubias pricey due to few breeding them as a staple, or do they have a shorter window when it comes to their growth cycle?

Maybe a pipe-dream, but who knows?

 

[Olympus]

Are dubias pricey due to few breeding them as a staple, or do they have a shorter window when it comes to their growth cycle?

I think they're pricey just due to demand. But even so, I think the prices are a pretty decent investment - you can find people selling 1,000 for under $50, and with 1,000 you can definitely get a colony going quickly so you never have to spend those $50 again. So it's a worthwhile investment, in my opinion. Especially if it means that you cut out the cost of crickets almost entirely or completely.

For me it's worse because it's a combination of too many Floridians wanting roaches and not enough people breeding discoids or the other species, so their prices are MUCH higher. Some guy contacted me yesterday wanting $1.50 PER nymph! Somewhere else someone is selling dusky cave roaches (a much bigger cousin of dubias) at $10 per 25. So I wish I could pay someone $50 and get a thousand of anything legal lol

 

[rothsauce]

No idea how popular they are up here, just checked with a local shop and they stopped carrying phoenix worms and butter worms since they were not selling well. Will have to do some more digging to see if anyone near has them but might have to rely on internet sources.

Would love to try a dubia colony but at the present, would not be possible. Hopefully something in the future.

 

[CarrotTail]

Some discussion starters:
Cautions when administering medicine
Are there side effects I should watch out for?
Should I expect behavior changes during the treatment?
How should I handle sanitizing the enclosures? As in:
Method (what is sure to remove/kill pinworms and eggs)
Timing (a certain amount of time after last dose...?)

In my one of breed group 1.2 I identify pinworm eggs. Geckos weight 55-60g less than year. No abnormal signs. I decided to use albendazole 50mg/kg once a day for 3 days per os. Fecal test after 14 days from last dose. 100% efficiency, no side effects in my case. More safety than albendazole is fenbendazole (albendazole can work teratogenic so if female are gravid or you plan mate male with female alb is not recommend).
Sanitizing the enclosures is very improtant thing. Methods depend on type of enclosure terrarium/vivarium or boxes in rack system.
For pinworms insects are not indirect provider. They have simple life cycle with one host. So mealworms, crickets or other insects should be polluted by feces with pinworms eggs.

 

[indyana]

Thanks for the additional information. Still waiting to actually receive whatever medication has been prescribed by the vet, but I don't need to worry about breeding in my case, as these are pet-only animals.

If anyone else wants to share their experiences with treating parasites, feel free. Have to admit that I'm interested in how common it is to need to treat periodically.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

In the past I've used Panacur (fenbendazole). It's really easy to get as a liquid and very safe. I asked my vet and did some research on it before administering to a few geckos that had pinworms. It is always better to test for parasites rather than simply dose them because they might have something but many breeders worm once a year or so to be on the safe side. Sometimes fecals can be negative even if an animal has a parasite if the parasite is in a non shedding phase when the fecal is taken. My vet recommends having fecals looked at twice a year at different times for this reason. I believe there may be internet companies where you can send fecals off to be tested at a lower cost than the vet may charge but I haven't looked into them since I love my vet

 

[indyana]

Thanks, Lisa. I need to remember to ask my vet if they'll now send out fecal samples for these two without an office visit every year... I got a call today that the medicine came in, so I'll be going next Tuesday morning with the boys for a lesson on administering the medication. I've done cats and dogs before, but since this was my first time working with lizards, I figured I wouldn't pass on getting some help with the first doses.

 

[insertexpletivehere]

Thanks, Lisa. I need to remember to ask my vet if they'll now send out fecal samples for these two without an office visit every year... I got a call today that the medicine came in, so I'll be going next Tuesday morning with the boys for a lesson on administering the medication. I've done cats and dogs before, but since this was my first time working with lizards, I figured I wouldn't pass on getting some help with the first doses.

One thought with the vet - you can ask them if they can dispense medication for the other two as part of a "herd health" program. If it's something contagious they should be able to dispense meds without seeing the animals. You'll just need to get valid weights on them.