Very strange behavior?

[Briannn]

This is probably the longest explanation but if you have the time then it'd be appreciated!
I have a juvenile leopard gecko named George. He has always eaten right everyday and a good amount, sometimes up to 17 mealworms a day and i used to feed him crickets and he'd eat those well too. Lately he's seemed WAY less interested in food and very inactive. He hadn't eaten in three days until yesterday i decided to get him some crickets. they were actually very very small crickets and he ate eight of them and then stopped. when i used to feed him crickets, he'd eat sometimes even 13 or a bit more or less. After he woke up and ate, he started to become very active and exploring his 10 gallon tank. I decided yesterday to buy him a new 20 gallon so it'd be less of a prison in his home and he'd have more room to go. He started being very active before i switched his homes and he was being very WEIRD. i would hear the reptile carpet almost being pulled on and look over and he'd be like shoving his head against the carpet and against the glass walls. Finally, once i set his new terrarium up and put him in, he went wild. he was going all over the place, and even climbing up to the very top of the highest thing i have in there (a log/hide that gets maybe 8 inches high at the tip of its height) and then JUMP off! he did this once and then went on top of a different hide and jumped off of it twice.. like very fast. it was FREAKING me out. idk what's wrong with him. hopefully he'll eat today but if he doesn't then idk. i don't know what the problem is. also, i thought the reason for his irregular eating could be the temps because they seemed very low. i had a 50 watt heat lamp that i left on during the day and would only reach about 80. i went and bought a 75 watt and it's still only reaching around 83 degrees which is not hot enough but i know it's atleast doing something because the colder side is around 70. do i need to go out and buy a 100 watt..? i use both the UTH and 75 watt and it's still only around 83. I have lots of questions to be answered so any input would be great. Thank youuuuuu

 

[SC Geckos]

As far as the temps. The ambient air temp (which I assume is what you are looking at) is not very important. You need to be checking the floor/surface temp directly over the UTH. That is where the temp should be between 90-93 (give or take a degree) I would not recommend using a heat lamp for a leopard gecko. As long as they can tell day from night thats all they really need. If you are still using the 10 gallon heat mat on a 20 gallon, it may be too small. Get a digital thermometer with a probe and tape it to the floor above the UTH. Monitor the temp there without the heat lamp. (the probe can pick up radient heat from the lamp and give you a false surface temp) As long as your temps there are in correct range ditch the lamp. If the temps are still too low you may need to get a larger heat mat and a thermostat to regulate the temp.

As for the acting weird part... Do you have pictures of the gecko and of the enclosure? This may help someone determine any other issues.

 

[sausage]

I agree with Brad, Heat bulbs are a no no! Geckos dont absorb heat through their backs like some other lizards, bulbs just make it hard for geckos to thermoregulate properly, they just cook them!
You need an UTH (Under tank heater AKA heat mat) under one side of the tank, idearly covering around 1/4 to 1/3 of the tank. this will give the floor temp needed for the gecko to digest its food.

this could explain the weird activity of the lil guy.
also changing to a new tank is stressful for a short time, all the new things and smells. he might not eat for a few days till he settles in

 

[M_surinamensis]

Heat bulbs are a no no! Geckos dont absorb heat through their backs like some other lizards, bulbs just make it hard for geckos to thermoregulate properly, they just cook them!

Elaborate.

 

[sausage]

in such a confined space bulbs heat the entire enclosure up not just the spot under the bulb, there for there is not an acceptable heat gradient making thermoregulation difficult.

 

[SORROW89]

I agree with Brad, Heat bulbs are a no no! Geckos dont absorb heat through their backs like some other lizards,

AS far as I know that's not true. Do you have any proof like scientific papers?

 

[Ozy]

-And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
LOL! That's my leopard gecko's name. Ozymandias. AKA Ozy. I named her that before I knew she was a girl.

AS far as I know that's not true. Do you have any proof like scientific papers?
AS far as I know that's kinda rude. Do you have any proof like scientific papers that they DO absorb heat through their backs? I'm not taking sides here, but that just came off as really rude to me.

 

[sausage]

there are numerous studies involving thermoregulation of geckos and various other reptiles.
i am at the moment trying to get free access links to post but scientific papers require membership, i can access them through my uni.

for any one interested in biology, its quite apparent in the biology of the gecko that they arnt designed for heat absorption through constant basking.

the leopard gecko has thin delicate skin covering its body, if it were a basking lizard the skin on its top side would be thicker and an overal darker colour to absorb the light.

they are aslo crepuscular animals which means that naturally they wouldnt really have prolonged contact with direct sun light.

LOL Ozy

 

[M_surinamensis]

I feel like this needs illustrations.

There are multiple aspects to consider when setting up the heating in a terrarium. The physics of the heat and the physiology and behavior that has evolved in the animal you intend to keep.


Heat isn't just about temperature. Heat is energy, moving and flowing and building up in different substances based on the physical properties they each possess. I've probably typed this on these boards about a half dozen times but it is my go-to example...

Consider an oven, set to 400 degrees. Everything in that oven is 400 degrees, the metal rack, your pizza and even the air. As you open the door that will start to change, as the heat is going to come out of the oven and the temperature will start to normalize, but to start off everything is 400 degrees. When you put your hand into the 400 degree air, not much happens at first because air is a pretty poor conductor of heat and not much energy is being moved from that air into your hand. If you left your arm in there long enough, it'd start to cook but this is a slow process. If you touch your pizza, the rate of energy transfer is much quicker, it feels hotter to the touch even though it is the same temperature as the air. You can still get your fingertips in there and slide the pizza onto a tray without burning yourself though. And if you touch the metal rack, you'll be burned immediately because the metal is an excellent conductor and the heat flows very easily from that metal into your hand in a very short time frame.

Your terrarium is like that oven in some respects. You're going to be using a heat source to add energy to the terrarium, to a target temperature. Everything inside the terrarium will have different conductive properties. The outside environment will have an impact as heat is lost. You're striving for a gradient, so that the leopard gecko can have a variety of temperatures and thermoregulate adequately, and they're much lower than four hundred pizza cooking degrees, but the same basic properties of how heat behaves all apply.


Then there is the physiology and behavior of the gecko- the kind of heat they need and how they have adapted to get it, the instinctive behaviors that control what they do when confronted with stimuli. Leopard geckos are... terrestrial, crepuscular and camouflaged. They're built low to the ground, evolved to meet conditions where portions of their body are frequently in contact with densely packed soil, dirt, rocks and (yes) sand. They are on or under ground the overwhelming majority of the time. They're most active at dusk and dawn, periods with indirect sunlight and significant change in the temperature as the direct line exposure to the energy of the sun is either fading or growing. They're primarily inclined to stay low and hidden, they're not a species with a strong drive to climb to the top of a tree or rock pile and sit out in the open for extended periods of time or any degree of frequency.

This means that they have evolved behaviors related to temperature that are mitigated and informed by their physiology and their natural environment. Sources of heat during their periods of activity will mostly be found through the radiant energy that has been added to the ground all day- the sun heats up rocks and soil, adding to the energy and raising the temperature, then when the sun sets and the air cools, the rocks and soil will have a greater amount of stored energy than the air (which cools rapidly) and will begin to radiate heat as the temperature equalizes. Leopard geckos become active during a time of day when the best source of heat is coming up from underneath them. This has influenced their behavior; how they seek warm areas. It has also influenced their physical evolution, low to the ground, chunky bodies with a lot of belly surface that they can lay into contact with the ground in order to transfer heat more quickly.




Most people find heat panels, UTHs, heat tape and so forth to be far more convenient for this species, for those reasons. It is the most direct route for creating the conditions the species needs to thermoregulate properly. The cheapest, the easiest and the most convenient method of achieving the intended goal.

It is not, however, the only method. Not by any means. Lights and overhead heat emitters absolutely can be used to create an ideal environment for a leopard gecko. It simply requires manipulating other aspects of the environment to make sure the heat is conducted in the appropriate amounts to the appropriate places, so that it is available to the gecko when and how they require it. They aren't extra-sensitive to heat coming in from above, an appropriate amount of overhead heating won't somehow dehydrate or injure them more than a similar amount radiating up from below, all the same qualities and qualifications apply to all heat sources pretty much equally, a leo can be "cooked" just as easily by a poorly regulated heat pad as they can a lamp.

Lights have two significant disadvantages and one debatable advantage.

Because they are producing heat from above, energy needs to travel first down to the bottom surface of the enclosure and there be absorbed by and radiated off from some kind of appropriately conductive substrate. This is less energy efficient, as heat will be lost in the space between the bulb and the substrate and can sometimes be tricker, as it requires finding a surface that will conduct enough heat without conducting too much. Paper towels, carpet, glass bottoms of aquariums, plastic bin bottoms, some ceramics and styrofoam are all poor conductors of heat and won't work well with lights. Stone, soil mixes and some (different) ceramics are excellent conductors and can potentially be used (which opens up substrate debates) but will still require some measurement and monitoring to make sure that they do not absorb and conduct more heat than they should.

Lights can also negatively effect the behavior of a species like a leopard gecko- one that is disinclined to exhibit a natural pattern of healthy behaviors when exposed to lighting conditions too far outside those they would encounter during a normal, natural cycle. Essentially, they wait for it to be dim or dark before they become active and a light source hanging twelve inches above them has the potential to really screw with their behavior patterns. Including important stuff like thermoregulation, feeding and hydrating.

As a positive though, with a great deal of care and effort, lights can be used to induce a more realistic day/night cycle and enhance the behaviors of the gecko- making them more active and healthier and prompting some behaviors that wouldn't otherwise be seen. This means replicating natural light cycles though, with variable spectrum and intensity, sliding timers and even variable angles. It's something that is beyond the inclination (and sometimes ability or budget) of a lot of herpetoculturalists. Especially because the benefits are not always the most tangible and easily measured.





So... heat pads are easier, lights can be made to work but are a lot more effort.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Awesome explanation! As a science educator, I love the physics of heat transfer being discussed in a real life scenario!!! Thanks!

 

[SC Geckos]

Awesome explanation!

+1 Really good stuff. There is only one problem with it........ After read this for some reason I want pizza. lol! All joking aside, very well put.

 

[SORROW89]

-And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
LOL! That's my leopard gecko's name. Ozymandias. AKA Ozy. I named her that before I knew she was a girl.

AS far as I know that's not true. Do you have any proof like scientific papers?
AS far as I know that's kinda rude. Do you have any proof like scientific papers that they DO absorb heat through their backs? I'm not taking sides here, but that just came off as really rude to me.

How is asking for scientific papers rude? This is just a topic that many disagree on so I thought you had something to back.