Vinyl Tile?

[toph427]

I am setting up a new tank and need some advice. I use ceramic/slate tile in my other setups but I don't have a wet saw and Lowes/HD will not cut tile. I had some sifted play sand in the tank for a little while but noticed one of my geckos was licking it when I put her in it for a minute. So I moved her out of it and took the sand out. I bought some vinyl tiles and had a quick question about them. I dont have a thermostat for my UTH and the vinyl seems somewhat thin and might be at too high of temps. Any advice?

 

[TokayKeeper]

The licking was curiosity out of new scent/environment. I go through this with all my leos when I do complete sand changes and/or setup a new tank for those that don't live in tubs. Been doing this same thing since 1997 when my oldest leo (purchased in Oct 96) was finally large enough to switch over to sand. I've never ever had a problem with geckos on sand from an ingestion standpoint. I did have a gecko get a grain or few stuck in his hemipene sheath that resulted in an infection. But that was handled by a vet and on smooth sailing since. That problem also happened last year. So 12 years of keeping on sand and only 1 problem and it wasn't even impaction related!

That said, my worry about the vinyl tile will be the heating of it and not the actual heat it will hold/disperse. My worry lies in any toxic fumes that will off gas from heating it. To me, that's far more worrisome than licking of sand. Pretty much anything of plastic base will off gas, with heating causing the process to occur faster. A local "green" building supply company does sell linoleum tile that is not suppose to off gas. You might look into that route if still paranoid about sand.

 

[toph427]

Ok cool thanks for the response. All of my geckos are adults so I think I will jsut stick with the sifted play sand. The breeder I got a couple of them from also uses play sand in his rack and has never had any problems.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Regular vinyl tiles do not heat up to a point that would emit any toxic fumes. You would n eed to heat them over 200+ degrees for the tiles or the adhesive on the backs to melt. I use high end vinyl tiles in my set up and have never had anissue with fumes of gasses. Think aboutit logically... your uth doesn't put out that much heat. It's like if you were to hold your feaverish hand in one place for quite some time, it's not going to produce the temps needed to affect the tiles, also look at home applications where it is used on floors that cover an in floor heating element... same thing... under 200 degrees, no fumes, no melting, no damage. Vinyl would be fine to use. The fumes IMO is just a myth like saying supers and mealies eat the stomach out of your leo.

 

[TokayKeeper]

The fumes IMO is just a myth like saying supers and mealies eat the stomach out of your leo.

Some annecdotal, some no so much...links:

http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596210

http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/eco-friendly/vinyl-shower-curtains-460613

http://floorcoverings.wordpress.com/category/linoleum-and-vinyl/

http://do-it-yourself.tribe.net/thread/b4167b0c-57ef-453b-bddb-6a078effd614

And some quotes:

By now you have hopefully heard that the once-coveted "new car smell" is actually the product of off-gassing of toxic volatile organic compounds (please don't buy it in a can). You may not have thought about it, but the same rule of caution applies to vinyl shower curtains


When you tear open that wrapper on a new plastic curtain, you can smell the off gassing. We've reported before that typical vinyl (polyvinyl chloride, or PVC) shower curtains often contain the chemical additive DEHP, a phthalate that is a suspected carcinogen and has been linked to hormonal disruption in humans. An EPA study had found that vinyl shower curtains can elevate air toxins in your home for more than a month.

Today, linoleum is making a comeback due to its environmentally-friendly labeling. Since the manufacturing of vinyl floors creates off-gassing of volatile organic compounds (VOC’s) many people with allergies are avoiding this product. Linoleum actually lasts longer because it is a stronger material with better backing. Many vinyl floor has paper as a backing while linoleum has jute, burlap or other earth-friendly products.

What you are referring to is Marmoleum, which is a modern version (and a brand name) of linoleum. Linoleum and vinyl are NOT the same thing. Linoleum (and Marmoleum) are natural products that do not off-gas like vinyl does. Also, the adhesive you use for linoleum is solvent-free with no VOCs.

This is just some of the reading I've done on this. I mainly got interest in this due to the fact that a former well known green tree python breeder made custom cages that he lined with vinyl contact paper. This same breeder was also known for having small-ish clutches of eggs from his breeders, something he even admitted if I recall forum postings correctly. Due to my interest in making cutsom cages for my snakes and geckos I started doing some research, legwork, reading, whatever you want to call it. Even at room temp these particular products off-gas, it's the "new" odor you smell. Given this is occurring at even room temp, any applied heat is going to aid in and percipitate the process. I'm FAR from and definitely not a green hippy nutjob (get a hair cut and a real job), and grately question some of the products as more than just a means to justify a retarded dollar amount, but sometimes the info and technology are logical.

 

[Dog Shrink]

I completely understand the arguement tokay but vinyl is different from linoleum, and if you use high end vinyl tiles you avoid a lot of the cheap stuff that could potentially give off gasses. Even to further the arguement in favor is if you leave the tiles out in open air to age for a while (mine had been in an opened box in my basement for months as leftovers from when I did my foyer) that would reduce the risk even more.

I do agree that a lot of the arguement is from the tree hugging green living crowd to push their more "environmentally friendly" (and more expensive) alternatives but when you consider that vinyl shelf paper and vinyl shower curtains are of a completely different composit then logic would dictate that floor tiles would be a completely different story. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges. I would never use shelf paper in a habitat enclosure for a herp. In the years that I use to professionally install carpet and tile I had never experienced that typical "vinyl" smell that you get from shelf paper and shower curtains when I would open a box of vinyl tiles. Linoleum is a different product altogether. Linoleum comes in sheets and is applied as all one piece and is a lot thinner than vinyl tiles. The high end ones I speak of if you were to install them and bend them they crack and break similar to how a ceramic tile would. Cheap vinyl tiles will bend and have a lot of give to them again letting you know they are of a lesser grade composit.

Lastly when you consider that the majrity of our herp's vivs are also ventilated then the threat of off gasses is reduced even further IMO but in the long run I think that each person should research the benefits and risks themselves. I've only used them in my viv since october and have noticed no ill effects that I can say are related to the use of vinyl tiles. Thanks for the links.