WEIRD ALBINO BELL GENETICS ????????????

[IceFyre]

Hi there everyone hope all is well. Well today i'm more puzzled than ever with the genetics of the albino strains. Let me start in 2008, I purchased two bell albino males for breeding which i then bred to various females and kept back the babies. That was when i realized my one female is not bell but tremper for all the babies from her was normal. Let me just add i keep and breed my geckos separately from one another to track down their genetics. So in 2009 i then bred the same males to all of the females and as to be expected the Het animals behaved exactly like all the literature says. But that was when i realized sometime different from the norm. I paired my one female bell to the male bell and bred out 2 albinos and 1 normal. At the time i didnt think much of it. Now 2010 i bred the same male to his granddaughter both being BELLS expecting all or most of the babies to be BELLS as the male is Het Patternless and his granddaughter possible Het Blizzard and Patternless. But now today in checked my incubator to find a shock. Three babies hatched and not one of them is BELLS ALBINO ????? The first two babies that hatched before today were both BELLS. The other thing is of the three that hatched today one is completely normal and the other two i dont have a clue. How does something like this happen and arent two bells supposed to give you all bells even if they are Het ???? SOMEONE PLEASE SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS ????
Thanks

 

[cassadaga]

Both parents could not have been Bells. The way the post is worded makes it difficult to understand, but basically, if you bred two albinos together and got normals, the parents were different strains.

 

[paulh]

Well today i'm more puzzled than ever with the genetics of the albino strains. Let me start in 2008, I purchased two bell albino males for breeding which i then bred to various females and kept back the babies. That was when i realized my one female is not bell but tremper for all the babies from her was normal. Let me just add i keep and breed my geckos separately from one another to track down their genetics. So in 2009 i then bred the same males to all of the females and as to be expected the Het animals behaved exactly like all the literature says. But that was when i realized sometime different from the norm. I paired my one female bell to the male bell and bred out 2 albinos and 1 normal. At the time i didnt think much of it. Now 2010 i bred the same male to his granddaughter both being BELLS expecting all or most of the babies to be BELLS as the male is Het Patternless and his granddaughter possible Het Blizzard and Patternless. But now today in checked my incubator to find a shock. Three babies hatched and not one of them is BELLS ALBINO ????? The first two babies that hatched before today were both BELLS. The other thing is of the three that hatched today one is completely normal and the other two i dont have a clue. How does something like this happen and arent two bells supposed to give you all bells even if they are Het ???? SOMEONE PLEASE SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS ????
Thanks

I think there is a mix of Bell albino and Tremper albino mutant genes in your stock. It could be Rainwater albino instead of Tremper albino, but Tremper albino is more common.

Here's what could have happened. The original male was a Bell albino het Tremper albino. The original "Bell albino" female was a Tremper albino. Their albino babies were Tremper albinos that were also het Bell albino. The original male mated to his albino daughter produced a mix of Bell albino, Tremper albino, and non-albinos. Independent mutant genes that produce mimic phenotypes are tough to keep straight. I can't help on the abnormal-looking nonalbinos.

Post if you want more details.

 

[IceFyre]

Both parents could not have been Bells. The way the post is worded makes it difficult to understand, but basically, if you bred two albinos together and got normals, the parents were different strains.

As far as i'm aware they are all bells. Is it possible that the males i bought could be double homo albinos ? The males look different to the offspring bells as in a lighter color.

 

[IceFyre]

Hi PaulH the first breeding with the males Bells and female Tremper produced only normal offspring ? Also there is know known Rainwaters in south africa. So this is really puzzling.
I will post photos of the parents and offspring.

 

[IceFyre]

BELL BLOOD LINE & GENETICS

Here are some of the babies i've produced from this males blood line
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=61983
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=61985

The original male 1st pic Bell and father to babies (Main Bloodline) Het Patty proven
The original female 2nd Pic Bell (gave normal baby with top male in 2009)
The Tremper female 3rd pic (gave all normal babies with top male in 2008)
First offspring Bell 4th Pic (Baby from top male and female in 2009 clutch mate was normal)
The Mother of babies and Granddaughter to 1st pic Bell male
Last lavender Bell also from 1st male Bell bloodline (granddaughter)

Hopefully we will be able to get a better idea to what they are.
Is there anyway of breeding out whatever possible hidden genes might be in the geckos

 

[IceFyre]

Sorry but i see a lot of people viewing this thread but no responses.
Does anybody care to comment as to what might be the reason to the problem.
Thanks in advance

 

[jermh1]

Could be a bell het tremper x tremper het bell throw het Rain water to both of those and you wind up making it impossible to tell what you have, could be what you are dealing with.
Could be some strange interaction between the strains but I doubt that, as I would expect a lighter gecko, not a cancellation of the albino's all together.

 

[paulh]

As far as i'm aware they are all bells. Is it possible that the males i bought could be double homo albinos ? The males look different to the offspring bells as in a lighter color.

The male you've been breeding from cannot be both Bell and Tremper albino. If he was, then all the babies from the mating to the Tremper albino female would be albinos.

I wondered how many young were hatched from that mating. If there were seven or more babies and none were albino, then there is a 99% probability that he is not heterozygous Tremper albino. If there were only two or three babies, then the result could be the luck of the draw.

I tried to look at the pictures, but nothing showed except a constant "loading" message.

 

[IceFyre]

if memory serves me right i got three or four babies and all were normal i think it was three.
Would it maybe pay off putting this male with another tremper female to see if he might be het. Or can i breed him to various of his offspring ? I do have female offspring from this male which is already triple hets and proven they are Het Bells + Blizzard + Patternless. Which might be the better option to go for ?
Thanks for everyone thats trying to help its really appreciated.

 

[paulh]

If you decide to find out if your male is heterozygous Tremper albino, then the best way is to breed it to a Tremper albino female. Breeding him to one of his babies will tell you nothing new.

 

[Tony C]

If you decide to find out if your male is heterozygous Tremper albino, then the best way is to breed it to a Tremper albino female. Breeding him to one of his babies will tell you nothing new.

That will create a lot more double het albinos though, if it was me I would start over with known pure Bells.

 

[IceFyre]

Thanks Tony for the advice. Tell me will i not also get tremper albino as well as bell albino if i pair this male to his daughters, i know not all of the females will be het for both albino strains but some where i will hit the odds. The rest of the offspring will be a mix of possible blizzard and patternless which make a great deal of possible outcomes including albino patternless, banana blizzard, Bells Blazing Blizzard and Blazing Banana Blizzard the last to is only possible when this males offspring thats also het Blizzard is crossed together. This combo has a very slim chance off happening but one never knows.