What do you people think?

[GekkoGalaksen]

In Norway it´s totally forbidden to hold any kind of reptiles.
Today I read an article in a Norweigen newspaper...
It seem like many that works for the authorities that is responseble for that this law follows, keep reptiles.

One of the guys that works there is telling about his fear to get caught.
He is not afraid for himself, loosing the job and so on...but for his reptils, that will be put down in a not so nice way!

They put the reptiles in the freezer, giving them a cold death!

When the newspaper confront the cheif for the responsable department ( it´s called Mattilsynet in Norway) about this method to put down reptiles, she said "that she don´t think it´s anything wrong with that method"

What do you guys here think about that?

 

[malt_geckos]

Awww. That's horrible! I know that's how we euthenise angelfish with deformities. We put them in a bag of water and put them in the fridge or freezer and they just fall asleep. I'm guessing it's different with the reptiles though. That's so horrible. Why can't you keep reptiles in Norway?

 

[StinaKSU]

the "refridgerator/freezer method?" I personally don't like it... Freezing is an extremely painful way to go....and unless someone can prove to me otherwise, I'm going to assume that the reptiles will feel it even if the temp is dropped slowly.

It is different with fish....they actually aren't believed to percieve pain (they don't even have that part of the brain).

 

[GekkoGalaksen]

Why can't you keep reptiles in Norway?

Well...if I have understand the Norweigen law correct, it says that it´s forbidden to hold reptiles beacuse they don´t fit in the Norweigen fauna.

But it's legal to hold insects ( even poisen insects), exotic birds and mamals.
So it´s a very strange law...

People in Norway that is interested in reptiles have been fighting for years to get a change in the law. They don´t have very big demands eigther...they just want the goverment to loose up the law, so it will be legal to hold some of the "harmless" reptiles, like leopard geckos, bearded Dragons, Corn Snakes and so on.

 

[The Gecko Guy]

that is soooooooooooo mean. I feel bad for those reptiles. They should at least be able to keep small and harm less reptils

 

[TWC]

i kinda undertand, because down here in Fla, people release their huge pythons in the Everglades and other places around. those pythons are really throwing the Everglades off whack. and it isnt the reptiles fault, it is the humans that arent committed and only buy them, then loose interest. i think that only committed people should be able to handle the reptiles, but i do understand their law. but i dont like the cold death thing, there should be a better way than that.

 

[moosassah]

Isn't freezer death what the pet stores in the U.S. do? At least that's what I was told by some members here.

 

[LeopardGeckoMom52688]

I kno here in MI, in Waterford, its illegal to own a constrictor snake. But what I don't understand is my neighbors and people can own german sheperds. I kno it depends on the owners but my neighbors are watching a dog and my dad is so scared of him he wont go near the fence. But yet I haven't met anyone that was so scared of my snake he wouldn't at least pet him. I mean what the heck is a ball python going to do . I have him in a tank that is very secure. We have had them for almost two years and have yet to have any one escape even my leopard geckos. And I understand alot has to do with what people do in FL. But no ball python would be able to survive the winters. The weather reaches below zero some days. I don't understand people and why some pets are illegal. I think its because the people that make the law are scared of them! Aka, snakes!

 

[Sandra]

That makes no sense. If they were afraid of the exotic fauna merging with the autochthonous fauna, they would forbid birds, mammals and insects also (what about amphibians?). It's obviously a law made out of fear and ignorance, and all that concern about the local fauna is just an excuse.

There are two autonomous regions of Spain (Andalusia and Catalonia) were all reptiles that weigh over 2kg are banned for private individuals (zoos and the like are ok). It's funny that tortoises and monitors are put at the same level of dangerousness than giant boids and crocs...

Not only it is indiscriminate, but also I don't see the point in forbidding even the most dangerous reptiles. The percentage of people that die from reptile attacks is so ridiculous it's not even worth mentioning it.

I'd see the point in banning reptiles because exotic pets are not well cared for by most of the people that own them, and to prevent the plundering of some species in their habitats. And I can understand that the introduction of foreign species in some areas can be catastrophic for the local fauna. I'd see the point then, although I don't accept it. But banning this animals as pets because of fear...

Governments are pron to pick the easiest solutions instead of the good ones. Why educate the population about reptiles when you can just forbid them?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have heard that when a gecko is put in the freezer, they can feel the ice crystals form in their blood. I don't know if this is true or not, since the gecko doesn't live to tell. My vet said that these are the most humane ways to euthanize a gecko:

1. lethal injection
2. Co2 chamber
3. a fatal blow to the head
4. refridgerator to induce coma, then freezer

Since 1-3 are not options for me, I prefer to put the gecko in the fridge until it is in a coma and then the freezer.

As far as laws in regard to keeping reptiles, I just think it is predudcial ignorance.

 

[Sandra]

My vet said that these are the most humane ways to euthanize a gecko:

1. lethal injection
2. Co2 chamber
3. a fatal blow to the head
4. refridgerator to induce coma, then freezer

Since 1-3 are not options for me, I prefer to put the gecko in the fridge until it is in a coma and then the freezer.

Well, I can understand about the blow to the head :sick: But why aren't the other two options for you? I've heard Co2 chambers are quite easy to make (Not meant to give anyone bad ideas!! I'm just curious if there's something about those methods that I don't know just in case I'm forced to euthanize a gecko someday... I hope not!).

 

[GoGo]

Im guessing options 1-3 arent for Marcia because she cant force himself to hit her animals and you would have to pay for the other 2 ways.

 

[RaiQuee]

The C02 chamber is pretty easy. We used it for feeder rats when we wanted to freeze them, as we wanted nothing to do with a blow to the head. We mixed vinegar and baking soda in a bag and shut it to trap the gas. Putting the rat in a container that was air tight, we then made a whole in the side, put in the edges of the bag so that the CO2 produced would replace the oxygen in the container. Rat went to sleep peacefully.

I've used the fridge method like Marica with geckos tho, as I was too bothered to have to set up the whole thing. This way Ed does it and I don't sit and cry for a few hours

 

[GekkoGalaksen]

Thank you so much for your opinions and your thoughts about this hard thing!
You guys are simply the best

Me...well my vet is taking care of the problem for me, and I am so thankfull that I don´t need to do it myself.
Why I don´t use the fridge and freezer method is beacuse someone told me that when the gecko reach a certain temp, it´s body produce a lot of stresshormons, and that it can be an indication of pain...

But this is just what I heard, I have no sientific prof of it or somehing else that could tell if it´s like that.

 

[Lizard Lair]

My vet has said that freezing is a cruel death, so if I have one that needs euthanized I let the vet do it with a lethal injection. The CO2 thing sounds like a great idea, but I'm to much of a softie. Like Desire I don't want to sit around bawling for awhile.

 

[Jenna4Herps]

I actually find this thread interesting as I have a background in sociology and have a huge interest in cultures and reptiles. I have not researched Norway, but are there any historical myths, legends, or taboos regarding reptiles? Or are these laws directly related to them wanting to protect the flora and fauna? In many cultures, reptiles of various species are used in rituals, religious beliefs, among other societal conditioning practices, and many may be feared or given a godlike status.

Are you familiar with any possible historical beliefs regarding reptiles in Norway?

 

[Gecko]

I's like to point out that the law makes no sense because what species are they worried about getting out into the enviroment.

Norway isn't Hawaii or Australia. I'm willing to guess they might have 2 native speices or less? The chances of something surviving that far north is extremely low.

 

[Sandra]

You'd be surprised of the variety of species that exist even in the most impausible climates. I'm sure they have a fine variety of species there in Norway. Although I agree that exotic species probably wouldn't survive there for very long. Most species can't even withstand the winter here and we are really close to Africa...

 

[trizzypballr]

I can verify that Petco practices the freezer death. It does seem cruel, i would rather go with the Co2 death but apparently someone believes freezer deaths are ok? They actually have a large deep freezer that they throw dieing or already dead animals into. The sad part is they wait until it is filled to have it emptied, and the petco that I used to work at actually had their freezer filled probably once a year...

 

[Gecko]

You'd be surprised of the variety of species that exist even in the most impausible climates. I'm sure they have a fine variety of species there in Norway. Although I agree that exotic species probably wouldn't survive there for very long. Most species can't even withstand the winter here and we are really close to Africa...

I really doubt they have much species diversity in herps that far North. If I had to guess I'd say less then 10. That's being real generous cause I don't want to look something up. Northern Europe in general is species poor in herps.