What Is This Baby?

[paulandsue]

We have gone and made the Ultimate mistake of not Tagging 2 of our eggs with the name of the Female.
We'd appreciate any input as to what Morph the Baby is.

The Father is a Giant Sunglow Het for Raptor.
The Mother is either Pickle, Raptor or Juicy, Bell Albino Enigma (Thats what we were told when we bought her as a Adult from a Reptile Breeders Show)

Anyway i've added the Photos and would like opinions on which is the Mother.
Also what Morph the Baby actually is.

Thanks.

 

[ReptileFanatics]

I would say it is from Pickle, if you would have bred that male to the Bell Engima it wouldn't be a good idea for starters and you wouldn't get any albino genetics due to the fact that Sunglow het raptor is Tremper Albino and the Bell Enigma is Bell Albino which together is not compatible.
That baby is obviously albino at least but what do the eyes look like?? Could be a Raptor????

 

[RampantReptiles]

Im so confused, you have attached pics of the possible moms. What are their morphs? Raptor, Bell Albino Enigma, and?

It looks like a RAPTOR.

As previous poster wrote do not breed RAPTORs and Bells, these are two different albino strains (tremper and Bell) and this is highly frowned upon! It is not that they are incompatible it is that you will end up with hets and possible hets for both strains and if someone were to try and breed these offspring they could be in for a big surprise when the baby is het for multiple albino strains!
This is called "Muddying the waters". If you would like to read more there is a sticky in the "Morphs and Genetics" section. If you were to breed two animals that were both het for multiple albino strains there would be no way to identify visually which albino strain/s it actually is. This in itself is a major problem...

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

They have pictures of all the adults posted, and here's what I'm seeing:

1.) Neither of the females "look" Bell to me. And, I certainly don't see an Enigma!

2.) That hatchling is an albino. Based on the genetics given, if one of those females were Bell and the hatchling came from her, that "supposed" Bell female would have to be het Tremper.

Most likely, what you have there is a Tremper Albino hatchling.

Can you post a close, clear eye picture of the what you're calling a "Bell Albino Enigma"?

 

[TranceZ]

They have pictures of all the adults posted, and here's what I'm seeing:

1.) Neither of the females "look" Bell to me. And, I certainly don't see an Enigma!

2.) That hatchling is an albino. Based on the genetics given, if one of those females were Bell and the hatchling came from her, that "supposed" Bell female would have to be het Tremper.

Most likely, what you have there is a Tremper Albino hatchling.

Can you post a close, clear eye picture of the what you're calling a "Bell Albino Enigma"?

I think the first one does look enigma.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

I think the first one does look enigma.

That eye in the first picture does not look Bell Enigma to me. :main_huh:

Edit: And I can see based on the file names that's the "Bell" in question.

 

[RampantReptiles]

Oh OMG I get it... geeeez.
Pickle = RAPTOR
Juicy = Bell Albino Enigma

That eye in the first picture does not look Bell Enigma to me. :main_huh:

Agreed, looks enigma but not Bell. Looks like a SHT Enigma, who knows what hets.


The baby looks RAPTOR. You can see the white Eclipse nose.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

The baby looks RAPTOR. You can see the white Eclipse nose.

I was thinking too the hatchling "may" be Eclipse, but wasn't willing to jump off the deep end. Looks like it could be though. :main_yes:

And partial reverse stripe too, indicating again the Trempers are most likely the pair that produced the egg.

 

[paulandsue]

Thanks for the replies.

I will try to get close up photos of the Hatchlings eyes and the Bell Albinos eyes.
From the Replies i can see that i shouldn't have bred the Sunglow and Juicy (Bell Albino). Sorry about that.

We are only breeding 3 of our Females the other pairing being Jungle Female with our Giant Mack Snow Het for Blizzard. Someone tell me i've not messed up on this pairing.
We are new to Reptiles and only breeding them to keep as Pets. We will never sell any of them.
I will take the advice and look into the do's and don'ts of morph breeding.

I've added a closer shot of the Bell Albinos Eye

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

I do not believe it's an Albino, and I'm not even sure I see an Enigma.

I think you've got a Super Hypo Tang het Bell, but that's just my opinion. Maybe somebody else has a different one.

 

[RampantReptiles]

Those look like non albino enigma eyes. or tremper enigma, but really leaning towards the first.
Edit: Gold around the pupil says enigma to me.

Tang Enigma:
http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com/index.php?title=File:Bgtangenigma5.jpg

Tremper Enigma:
http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com/index.php?title=File:Tremperenigma2.jpg

Bell Albino:
http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com/index.php?title=Bell_Albino

Bell Enigma:
http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com/index.php?title=File:Bellenigma1.jpg

 

[paulandsue]

The Male i bought from one of the top Breeders in the UK. He was Labelled as Sunglow het Raptor.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

You know, I'm on wiki, looking at lots of pictures. If that's Enigma eye being expressed in that picture, then it's the most subtle I've ever seen. Not saying it isn't, because it's hard sometimes to tell from a picture, but it's not obvious.

What also makes it difficult is that the animal has none of the typical body markings of an Enigma, with the exception that it doesn't have any carrot tail. But even non-Enigma animals can be non-carrot tail too.

It took me a while to even write a response, because I was so on the fence about this gecko.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

The Male i bought from one of the top Breeders in the UK. He was Labelled as Sunglow het Raptor.

From what I can tell, the male's described morph is accurate, as is the other female's.

 

[RampantReptiles]

This is a tremper enigma I used to have.. at least I assume she was albino and people on the forums said she was but I even question that...

 

[RampantReptiles]

Yeah I think maybe yours is tremper as well. Notice the red veins in the eyes. So its a Tremper Sunglow Enigma! Nicely colored BTW

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

The plot thickens...

See, for me that is an Enigma. The body markings really give you a clear indication I think.

 

[RampantReptiles]

Are your females still laying? I say separate them and keep track of who laid what. If the eggs from that Enigma when crossed with the Sunglow male are all albino then there ya! Tremper it is. If all are non albino then maybe its het Bell or who knows... If some are non albino then its het Tremper

 

[RampantReptiles]

On a sorta side note... her baby pic
100% Enigma spotting there!

 

[paulandsue]

Are your females still laying? I say separate them and keep track of who laid what. If the eggs from that Enigma when crossed with the Sunglow male are all albino then there ya! Tremper it is. If all are non albino then maybe its het Bell or who knows... If some are non albino then its het Tremper

I have other eggs which are Labelled so when they Hatch it should be clearer which is the Mother.
The nearest Pic of a Gecko I can find that looks like Juicy is on the JMG site. It looks identical to Juicy body wise but the pic doesn't show the eye colouring.
Having said that this Pic seems to show some small black dot markings. Juicy has none.

Heres the link http://jmgreptile.com/shop/prod_2497.html