Need some help

Cmack91 · Sep 19, 2012

Following up on these two threads:
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=90676
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=90785

I just got home. First, they are a 1.1 pair of leopard geckos. But, the cage was disgusting. They were using that repti-carpet crap, which as far as i'm concerned, is simply a breeding ground for bacteria, especially in this case. The cage was littered in feces, with twice as much under the carpet. The smell was terrible. The stuff they were feeding them is freeze dried mealworms, which also littered the cage floor, along with a big black beetle larvae looking thing that I couldn't come close to identifying (it was dried up and nasty). Also, all they had for a heat source was an unregulated UTH, and a lamp with a burnt out bulb (which weren't even on [it wouldn't suprise me if the reason they got rid of them was because of the bulb]). No thermo, no hygro, no humid hide.

I have them set up in a 41qt tub right now with proper temps, and I am going to keep the entire enclosure humidified for the next day or so. The male looks relatively healthy, but he does have some stuck shed on his toes (which are all there), and a small patch on his nose. The female is in shed right now, she has a couple of layers stuck to some of her toes, and is missing one on her back right foot. And I think there may also be a layer or two stuck on the last half of the tail. She is also very skinny, I can see and feel her spine. Tomorrow I will be getting some live mealworms (and calcium) so hopefully they will take them.

What I need help with is what to do with the stuck shed. The males pieces look like they would come off during his next shed, but they females most certainly will not. Should I try peeling it off of them with some tweezers? Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks.

DrCarrotTail · Sep 19, 2012

I would separate them until they're both a healthy weight. The male could be stressing the female out more than you might think and contributing to her skinniness. Plus if she's as thin as you say you'll want to monitor her eating closely.

You can try soaking them in warm water for about 10 minutes before gently trying to rub the shed off with a q-tip or tweezer. If the female is really thin and weak this might be pretty stressful for her so I might hold off for a few days until she has a meal or two.

For the female - feed her small meals at fist of about 3-5 mealworms at a time. Their systems need to get used to eating again or they can regurgitate food.

Good luck! Glad they're in better hands now!!

Cmack91 · Sep 21, 2012

Thanks a bunch Lisa! Yesterday I pulled some of the stuck shed off of the female, just from around the head area. Today I'll be getting some mealworms and calcium, and some extra hides and maybe some moss. I'm also going to make a divider for their tub.

I snapped some pics yesterday, the male is up first.
He's 8.5-9", at 56 grams.

Now the female, she's about 6.5, maybe 7", at 23 grams.

Also, what should they weigh at these lengths?

katie_ · Sep 21, 2012

Oh wow, she is VERY thin.
Have they seen a vet?
I would seperate them ASAP! Hopefully a change in husbantry can bring them back, good luck.

ChristinaJ · Sep 21, 2012

Do you know how long the previous owner had them? The female being thin could be due to bullying, but the "stick" appearance of her tail concerns me. Usually this hints a parasites, I would STRONGLY recommend taking them to a vet ASAP and getting fecals done on both geckos just to be sure, parasites can kill a gecko very quickly if they are not treated.

DrCarrotTail · Sep 21, 2012

They're quite pretty! Glad they have someone to care for them now! I hope its just a case of being underfed. Has the female eaten at all while you've had her? If she refuses to eat I would take her to the vet ASAP like Christina suggests. Separating them is also super important. She needs minimal stress. She's thin enough that little things could push her to a point of no return pretty easily.

That looks like a few month's worth of shed and restriction so I wouldn't be surprised if they both have lost the toes underneath it. If she's not shaky and she has eaten try soaking her in warm water 5 mins once or twice a day for a few days. Gently use tweezers or q-tips to rub the shed off after the soak. The shed may not loosen on the first try but may start to over time. I would start the soaks with the male ASAP.

Good Luck! Let us know how they improve (fingers crossed!)

Cmack91 · Sep 21, 2012

The previous owners had them I believe for at least a year, maybe two.

Being as I have no real job right now, money is TIGHT, so unfortunatly a vet visit is going to have to wait.

My plan once I get them seperated is to raise temps to 80 ambient with a hot spot of 93, and also keep the humidity up to about 60. Im also going to soak the female every other day to keep her hydrated. Im getting calcium and vitamin powders for the mealworms too.

Does all of this sound good? Anything I should change or add (besides vet)?

Edit: Lisa, she hasnt eaten at all, not even her shed skin. But all she has at this moment is the freeze dried worms, so we'll see what happens when she has live food in front of her.

DrCarrotTail · Sep 21, 2012

Yeah most geckos won't touch freeze dried anything. Get some live worms in front of her ASAP and if she doesn't care to eat them I think you need a vet. Not eating in her state means she's either too lethargic to eat or could have some sort of illness or god forbid crypto. In any of those cases you would need a vet's help to save her and possibly the male too. If she has something and the male has caught whatever it is he could start to go downhill pretty quick as well.

Best of luck! My fingers are still crossed that she just needs a clean, boyfriend-free environment and food geckos actually eat!

katie_ · Sep 21, 2012

Will your local vet at least help you with a fecal? If she has something than upping the temps wont help

DrCarrotTail · Sep 21, 2012

P.S. Keep things simple. An under-tank heater (UTH) should give you the warm spot you need. You should be able to pick one up at the petstore for about $15-20. I wouldn't try to raise the entire tank's air temperature unless your house is really cold (like under 65 degrees).

I also wouldn't try to increase the humidity in the entire tank - overly humid air could result in a respiratory infection. Just make sure they both have a hide with a higher humidity than the rest of the tank on each of their sides (Tupperware with damp paper towel in it works well). Then they can choose the humidity they need.

ChristinaJ · Sep 21, 2012

My vet only charges me $10 to do a stool sample. See if there is anyone in your area that will just do that. If it is Crypto, the male is already infected because he was housed with the female. Crypto is deadly, there is NO cure. It can also spread to other reptiles, which you mentioned that you have.

Cmack91 · Sep 21, 2012

Theyre in a rack right now, the rooms heated to about 75, the temps in the cage are 78 ambient, 92 over the heat tape, with 55% humidity. The lowest I can get it to drop to is about 40%.

Cmack91 · Sep 21, 2012

10$? I didnt think it would be that cheap. I'll email my vet and ask him, or call him tomorrow.

ChristinaJ · Sep 21, 2012

Fecals are super cheap to get done, it doesn't require taking the animal to them, just a fresh stool sample. I have my ENTIRE collection tested once a year as a precaution, my vet even gives me a discount for this, and usually have new geckos tested when I receive them and place them in quarantine for 60 days.

Cmack91 · Sep 21, 2012

SHE ATE!!! She ate like a beast! I'm so relieved its insane lol. The second she saw the mealworm she went for it, no hesitation whatsoever. I fed her 4 smalls, with 3 more in her dish, with the calium and vitamin dust, so hopefully she'll eat those too.

I also made a divider for the tub, it's solid colored so they cant see each other. So now all I have to do is find another hide for each of them (they both have one right now).

DrCarrotTail · Sep 21, 2012

Yay that's awesome news. Start her out slow with food. Leos who haven't eaten in a while have small stomachs and can get overzealous, eat too much and regurgitate their food. You probably want to give her no more than 5 mealworms a day at first. If she holds those down and doesn't regurgitate you can add one more mealworm every other day until you get to about 10.

Cmack91 · Sep 21, 2012

She kept it down, I put another in front of her and she showed no interest. I'll give them to the male though to make sure she doesnt over eat during the night.

ImNotYogi · Sep 22, 2012

That's great news. Hopefully they start eating you out of house and home soon

Especially the female. I don't understand how people can let things get that bad but it does seem like they're in capable hands now.

Cmack91 · Sep 23, 2012

Theyre still going good. Both are eating and the female looks better, same weight and all but she just looks better. The males in shed right now too, and im excited to see how he looks with new skin. I havent heard back from my vet yet but it is the weekend. Anyway, i'll keep you all updated on their progress here.

Imnotyogi: Fortunatly they gave them to me, and thank god they dont have any other animals. They do have a kid though but he is in good shape. I was talking to my brother and he said he went over there and his friend said "Do you think your brother would want these geckos? I think they're dying". So at least he had the sense to know that theyre not doing good.

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