a new hobby, new questions.

[Zippers]

hey there guys^^

i was recently given three adult females as a gift from a friend who rescued them a while ago.

Wadjet is quite large..her whole body is a dark green and her tail is purple. she has a few spots on her head and some on her tail.

i did quite a bit of research and tho she DOES show the physical traits of a patternless tangerine or yellow..shes like..pickle green...i cant find anything on a green leo x.x

Ankh is the middle in size..silver eyes^^ but her body is pink with soft yellow bands across her...shes most certainly a Tremper Albino.

and Kuk is the smallest..shes the typical gecko you see when you google the word. brown and yellowish. her tail looks like its regenerated.the tip is a bit blunt. i guess that's called a 'normal'?

im thinking of perhaps getting into the breeding scene, im in love with Snows and Red Stripes. Thinking of working towards a super giant snow. but that would be at least a year down the road once im sure im educated enough to do it properly.

so dont worry..i might ask a lot of breeding questions,.but i dont plan on rushing into anything prematurely.

and i was told to stay away from Enigmas...because the gene is somehow flawed? and as much as i see people talking ill of enigmas..i cant find anything on what exactly it is that makes it bad..or what it causes.

im exited about this new hobby and learning more about my babies^^and hopefully this comunity will help me get the answers to all my questions^

-Z

 

[Thorgecko707]

The enigma gene has nuerological issues that can make it walk in circles, bob it's head, and miss food while striking. Not all enigmas show heavy signs of it.

 

[Zippers]

but if its proven to cause nurological issues in the animals,..then why purposely breed animals with the gene?

what about enigma makes the risk of gimped babies worth it?

god i know my heart would break if i had leo babies with deformities..

how common is it? the deformities i mean...how many on average in a clutch dont hatch?

i have done reserch on breeding..but i havent found my answers there..mostly the reason why i joined this website^^

 

[Thorgecko707]

Color is the main reason to breed. All enigma have it to some degree. Some may never show signs, and some may tap dance the night away.

 

[Zippers]

so people breed sezures into theyre animals over the color yellow? is it the yellow coloration thats desired? because im pretty sure using the paternless would bring out the same colors right?

 

[Thorgecko707]

I don't think it is siezures.

 

[Zippers]

the head bobbing sounds like miniature seizures.

 

[artes]

Most enigmas are just silly instead of having mini seizures. That's how I look at it anyway. I have one that doesn't really show any enigma issues, except she tends to sleep sideways against her tissue box, or she props her head funny up on the side of it. She's beautiful and healthy though, and that's all that matters.

You run a risk of having unhealthy babies no matter what you breed. So you might as well try for the beauty and character of a cool enigma.

Snickers the enigma:

 

[Zippers]

i still dont unerstand it tho. Is there a 100% enigma i could look at? i just dont see the attraction. I understand they are silly or w/e but from a breeding standpoint why?

is it the coloration? the spots? maybe lack of spots?

ive looked at like 50 pictures of enigmas and they all look differint with no distinguishing qualities. So if there is no real benifit to breeding them, and possible risk of neurological issues,.why do it?

@artes

yes there are risks when breeding anything,.but there is more risk with enigmas because the gene has been proven to carry neurological problems.

lol Kuk lays in her back with her legs in the air under the heat lamp..the first time she did this i thought she was dead x.x

but im 100% sure shes not enigma because she shows all the traits of being a 'normal' leo.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

i still dont unerstand it tho. Is there a 100% enigma i could look at? i just dont see the attraction. I understand they are silly or w/e but from a breeding standpoint why?

is it the coloration? the spots? maybe lack of spots?

ive looked at like 50 pictures of enigmas and they all look differint with no distinguishing qualities. So if there is no real benifit to breeding them, and possible risk of neurological issues,.why do it?

It's called humans are selfish. Some enigmas are very colorful and have really cool patterns, so it's pleasing to the eye. So just like anything else we humans do, we think of our needs first. Even though there are plenty of other beautiful morphs than can be produced without the risk of consistent neurological disorders, they are still being pumped out in hopes that the problem will just go away. It's human nature. Sad but true.

 

[artes]

I don't think I would go that far. If people didn't breed them, they would cease to exist, and there are plenty of perfectly healthy and happy enigma geckos out and about.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Yes, but they didn't even exist before 2006 and the only reason they do exist is because of us Human beings playing with genetics. It's not like they were wild caught and we are wiping out a whole species. If they knew then what they do now, do you think mark bell would have continued breeding them or would he of culled them knowing the issues they have? It's an interesting question. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this and whether it's in the best interests of the animals to continue breeding them, knowing that some will have neurological issues that will eventually cause suffering and death or is it in our best interests because they are eye candy.

 

[lillith]

I like them.

I think if the originators of the morph had culled the most problematic/symptomatic individuals it would be less of an issue today than it is. But you can't put the cat back in the bag. The same argument could be made for anything we domesticated during the agricultural revolution...should we have goats, sheep, cows, chickens (or wheat, rice, barley, or rye)? Can you just release them back into their indigenous areas, where suitable habitat may or may not exist? Will the domesticated/altered organism be able to adapt back to what it was before we messed with it?

Chris is right about humans playing god, but it isn't the first time and it won't be the last time. Someone has to be responsible with it.

Done is done.
The enigma debate can always be picked up again, wherever one puts it down.
And I like them, so I have them. But I do try to limit how many I create, because of the inevitable culls.

 

[sunshinegeckos]

I have them and i will be breeding some of them. I will only breed those that show no symptoms. I know they can show symptoms at any time but at the moment they aren't so i feel comfortable breeding them. If the offspring that are enigma show symtpoms severe enough to be culled I will deal with that when the time comes. I dont feel it makes me selfish. I feel I am responsible enough to work with them. I think it is more of a problem if you are not aware or dont care about the issue and just breed any enigma out there. There are enigmas that should not be bred but are.

 

[Zippers]

pitiful D:

 

[lillith]

Zippers, dahling? I don't know you and you don't know me.
You have not met my Sunbeam or my Sunshine, or you'd know why I love them so.

But calling my breeding project "pitiful" is truly not a friendly way to start out.
I respect your opinion, you are entitled to feel that way, and I even understand why you do. But please be respectful, here.

 

[artes]

You were given good reasons for the continued existence of enigmas. Just because you've already made your mind up, doesn't mean all reasons or projects with them are pitiful. And btw, I don't breed, and have no desire to breed. Snickers, unless some magical star appears in the sky, will not have babies. But that doesn't mean she should have never been made because you disapprove of the chance of possible neurological disorders. There's only a 40% chance that they'll even show any symptoms, and many of the symptoms are mild. I hardly think walking around in circles is a horrible fate of doom and worthy of refusal of breeding.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I walk around in circles all the time....but it's because I can't remember what the hell I came into the room for! It's not enigma syndrome, it's CRS! For those of you who don't know what that stands for, I'd tell you, but I can't remember.....

 

[sunshinegeckos]

I walk around in circles all the time....but it's because I can't remember what the hell I came into the room for! It's not enigma syndrome, it's CRS! For those of you who don't know what that stands for, I'd tell you, but I can't remember.....

lol I do the same but its because my kids have zapped my memory

 

[artes]

LMAO @ Wild West. I do the same thing too. Getting old sucks. -_-