a new hobby, new questions.

[Zippers]

I like them.

I think if the originators of the morph had culled the most problematic/symptomatic individuals it would be less of an issue today than it is. But you can't put the cat back in the bag. The same argument could be made for anything we domesticated during the agricultural revolution...should we have goats, sheep, cows, chickens (or wheat, rice, barley, or rye)? Can you just release them back into their indigenous areas, where suitable habitat may or may not exist? Will the domesticated/altered organism be able to adapt back to what it was before we messed with it?

Chris is right about humans playing god, but it isn't the first time and it won't be the last time. Someone has to be responsible with it.

Done is done.
The enigma debate can always be picked up again, wherever one puts it down.
And I like them, so I have them. But I do try to limit how many I create, because of the inevitable culls.

you dot have to cull or iliminate them. But knowigly breeding animals with the gene..knowingly producing babies that could suffer is borderline crule.

even if the parents dont show signs..they still carry the gene.. they can still produce compromised offspring.

and i have still anyone tell me what the exact attraction is. If its the grey coloration, why not replace the enigma with a snow? Snows dont carry the gene.

 

[Zippers]

" The same argument could be made for anything we domesticated during the agricultural revolution...should we have goats, sheep, cows, chickens (or wheat, rice, barley, or rye)? Can you just release them back into their indigenous areas, where suitable habitat may or may not exist? Will the domesticated/altered organism be able to adapt back to what it was before we messed with it?"

i dont think the problem came from domestication i think it came from inbreeding.

 

[OnlineGeckos]

and i have still anyone tell me what the exact attraction is. If its the grey coloration, why not replace the enigma with a snow? Snows dont carry the gene.

The attraction is the color enhancing effects of enigmas. So instead of orange, enigma genes make orange look reddish. Instead of dark spotting of snows, they have reduced spotting and enhanced weird orange coloring blended in.

Personally they aren't for me strictly due to the neurological issues, although they are very very pretty. And I won't ever breed them no matter how much money people make off of them. I'm not gonna tell others what they can or can't do. I feel by not buying them or support in breeding them, I'm already speaking on my behalf.

I do hope the newer W&Y's will prove to be a replacement to Enigmas in the future. I don't really understand W&Y's myself but there are others that are working on improving them, and they do give off the enigma'ish effects of color enhancing looks. So hopefully they'll turn out to be a good project that can replace the need for enigmas in the future :main_thumbsup:

 

[Zippers]

@Mardy

finally..an answer.

thankyou...

i like the red in redstripes,.and yes i like tangerines and such but not that much lol.

i plan on breeding in the future,.going for a super giant bold stripe snow *drools*

 

[lillith]

i dont think the problem came from domestication i think it came from inbreeding.

Just my last two cents on it, domestication by its very nature involves some inbreeding of varying degrees, and in the process of domestication random mutation will occur due to outside selective pressures being taken off of them.

Here's an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

That being said, all leos in the US except for some European imports are fairly inbred since CITES no longer allows direct importation of new wild leos.

As far as enigmas all carrying the trait, yes it's true, but some are definitely less symptomatic than others, and that is where breeding them should be focused. For me? The allure is in the symmetry of the markings and the color enhancement, as well as the very friendly and almost curious personalities of the non-symptomatic enigmas.

You can look into threads on culling to see why as a breeder, eventually, there will be something you will have to cull. I'll let you look into those yourself.

In any case, welcome, and I hope you find what you're looking for here.

 

[Desdemona]

Its funny that cows came up because some believe that cows would be instinct if not for the domestication of them. However I just saw it as an aside in a food blog (though one based on health and science) so don't know the details. Might be a interesting read.

Snows are becoming my favorite visually, but enigmas do have a charming curiosity about them. My two enigmas seem to "get over" stress faster than my non-enigma girls. That alone would make them more suitable as pets. A gecko that is only going to take 24 hours to settle will be happier than one that needs a week. Of course making all Leos enigma (assume the syndrome could be eliminated) would be losing a lot of genetic possibility and I am not suggesting that. What's been done has been done and I think that not giving the genes a chance to correct themselves through careful breeding would be a waste.

Of course if you don't like it or don't want to breed them there is nothing wrong with that. But those who just want it all gone might be throwing out a baby with the bath water (so to speak).

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