a question for you guys about some hybinos I have been popping out. Opinions welcome

[Ghetto Gecko]

I have a question about some of these Hybinos I have been popping out from Hybino het RAPTOR to Hybino het RAPTOR. I only ask you this because I havent been back in the Gecko field for some time and I have no handle on the market whatsoever. These are what I think are Red eye(or snake eye) hybinos. Some are older and some are very young but all of these in the photos have either R/E or S/E(red eyes or snake eyes). Unlike RAPTORS, they all had baby patterns. Some of lost them completely with no white left and some are on their way in doing so. If you didnt know where they came from, you may mistake them from RAPTORS. but, are they? Just like the Hybinos, they show the same variability(is that even a word? LOL) Some are great and lose all of the white and some keep different amounts. The ones with solid Red eyes are stunning. I have more I didnt take pics of and more popping out, they all seem to have similiar color traits. Here are my questions.

Are they RAPTORS by definition?
Is this a desirable(in your opinion) trait to try to develop?(in other words, am I wasting my time because someone could just buy a RAPTOR right?

Will the colors in these be better than the RAPTORS?

Thanks alot for responding. I have to start to consider what to hold back and what to sell so I figured I would ask you guys since you all seem to be on the ball. Mike Panichi

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Mike, they would be considered Ruby Eyed Hybinos(aberrant/jungle patterned).

Some people will call it a "Raptor" no matter what, but that would not be correct IMO. I feel it they should be named according to pattern, so a Jungle w/ funny eyes would be called a "funny eyed jungle" lol Not all "Patternless" types hatch that way, or end up completely without pattern, so that is going to cause confusion for alot of people. I see that some Patternless Stripe are just being called "Jungles", which is only partially correct.

From the looks of it, and from my experience outcrossing that project I would say that a larger number of babies from this year, will show more color, as opposed to the ones from last year. You can still hatch an "ugly" gecko from any of the three lines at this point, depending on your breeders I mean. I`de doubt those 100% CT Raptors make "ugly" babies, though. :main_laugh:


By "three lines" I mean

Hybino/Raptor crossed lines
Red Stripe/Raptor crossed lines
..and just Raptors

 

[robin]

well its seems with the increasing combinations of hybinos x raptor. the hypo will be dominant over the rest of the pattern. i mean whether a banded or a jungle stripe whatever. they will be hypo.
thing is that just from this type of breeding it seems as though while a RAPTORS pattern is what it is. the ruby eye part is on a different genes. possibly not necessarily associated with the "patternless gene"? therefore a trait of its own?

maybe that made sense

ok maybe old news but i dont pay attention much

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Robin, the Ruby Eyes came out of the Aptor project. Without the "Patternless Stripe" gene, there would be no Eclipse/Raptor. Just like without Stripes or Jungles, there would be no Reverse Stripes.

I believe the same goes to say for: If there were never any Reverse Stripes, there would never have been a "Patternless"-type. If it is its own gene it actually DID "come out of" another gene. It is actually called a co-recessive trait. I have been doing a little bit of reading on it, and the definition fits it very well.

The A&M Gecko, and Groovy Geckos, "Patternless Stripe" projects, completely proved the theories of how the Eclipse/Raptor gene works.

 

[robin]

ok dan but what about banded offspring or ones that go hypo (aberrant or banded) with solid red eyes?

i mean yes i understand the genes are there but if the "patternless part isn't there wouldn't that mean the red eyes wouldn't be as well?

 

[Harmurray]

I hatched my first Ruby Eyed Hybino last year from SHTCT's that were 100% het for APTOR. I agree that the Patternless Stripes are the gene unlocker for the Ruby Eyes but I think now that we are seeing them in geckos that do not have stripes that maybe the gene has been isolated.

Harold

 

[BalloonzForU]

That is sooo sweet looking Harold.

 

[Ghetto Gecko]

now look at that gecko you have there and tell me

I hatched my first Ruby Eyed Hybino last year from SHTCT's that were 100% het for APTOR. I agree that the Patternless Stripes are the gene unlocker for the Ruby Eyes but I think now that we are seeing them in geckos that do not have stripes that maybe the gene has been isolated.

Harold

that the solid ruby eyes dont just make that a mind blowing animal. To me, its like super nice crown molding, the finishing touch on a nice piece of work. That gecko there without the red eyes would be a really nice Hybino but with those dark ruby eyes, its an award winner in my honest opinion. Seeing that guy almost answered most of my questions really. Thanks for showing him. PS I agree on the isolation thing. Mike Panichi

 

[robin]

I hatched my first Ruby Eyed Hybino last year from SHTCT's that were 100% het for APTOR. I agree that the Patternless Stripes are the gene unlocker for the Ruby Eyes but I think now that we are seeing them in geckos that do not have stripes that maybe the gene has been isolated.

Harold

harold, you made my point or rather what i was trying to get to. ruby eyes are now being seen on animals other than "patternless", stripe and reversed stripe (and jungle). like harold said the "patternless" may have unlocked the gene but since we are now seeing it on on stripe,reversed stripe and "patternless" i wonder what else you could make have solid red eyes (tremper strain albinos of course)

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I think that now since the banded gene was bred into the line, via Hypos, SHTCT`s, Hybinos, Normals, etc, that it will become alot more common to see Banded, Aberrant, and more Jungle, Ruby Eyed or Eclipse geckos. Ron was right they did not carry the banded genes. Now depending on who someone buys from, they may or may not get banded genes included.

This was something that I noticed from the first release of "Aptors", but there does not seem to be any non-"hets", at all. All of what were sold as Aptors made Raptors for people, even the "het Aptors". I was actually told my "het Aptor"(from the first release) was NOT a "Raptor het", and she ended up being a "het". I think that if they carry the "Patternless" gene, that is really all they need.

Ever since noticing RT`s mistake, I have paid alot of attention, and pretty much every "het Aptor", "possible het Aptor", and even "possible het Raptor", that I have bred, or heard results about(other people`s geckos), has made Ruby Eyed/Eclipse geckos. The few "possible hets" I have bred, that did not prove out for me, the father was also a "het", so I could have just been unlucky.

Ruby Eyed Jungles also came out of the Raptor project, I was lucky enough to hatch one of the first from my geckos, so it does not only happen on "Patternless Striped"(Aptor) geckos. They are able to produce any pattern, so it was just a matter of time before the "new" combinations were made.

There are allready some Ruby Eyed Banded/Aberrants popping up, and I am still working on making the Red Stripe Albino version.

 

[robin]

do you think if you breed the right combo you can get a ruby eyed bb?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Robin, that is what the Diablo Blanco is supposed to be. Where have you been?

 

[robin]

well i was in the can and then a nice padded room

 

[trizzypballr]

Actually JMG has now made RADARS (Eclipsed Bells) Check them out on JMGreptile.com They are pretty sweet

harold, you made my point or rather what i was trying to get to. ruby eyes are now being seen on animals other than "patternless", stripe and reversed stripe (and jungle). like harold said the "patternless" may have unlocked the gene but since we are now seeing it on on stripe,reversed stripe and "patternless" i wonder what else you could make have solid red eyes (tremper strain albinos of course)

 

[Gazz]

What groovygec's is saying has merrit but i'm not 100% with it.That's due to me getting a partial black eyes SHT-B (can't say tremper eclipse as not proven yet)!.But mine came from two normal SHTCT-B with no RAPTOR OR tremper eclipse blood so no stripe's.And no blizzard tinted blood either.But i got black eyes ? i'm not saying it's tremper eclipse but just as likely it could be and same thing could have happened to tremper.I've just got a male tremper striped partial eclipse to breed her with next year to prove or disprove and if i get eclipse babys strate off that tell me stripe x reverse striped breeding is't the course to get eclipse.And that when tremper was doing his APTOR project he just had a het eclipse that he didn't know about but tremper interbreeds a lot so it would't have taken long to show it's self in his APTOR project.And this way eclipse would be link to APTOR but that dosen't necessarily make it responsable just right place right time! it just piggy backed the project and a nice unexpected added plus.Just my opinion and when i breed my (striped partial eclipse X partial black eyed SHT-B = ??) next year i'll imform you of the results but if it pay's off it will put a new spine on the eclipse gene.Here pic's of partial black eye super hypo tangerine baldy and there parents.

 

[robin]

Actually JMG has now made RADARS (Eclipsed Bells) Check them out on JMGreptile.com They are pretty sweet

yeah i saw them, the are neat looking but i am not a real fan.