A Thought On Enigmas...

eyelids

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After looking through the pics I've collected I came up with something...

All of the non red eyed Enigmas have these characteristics:

- Lots of black spotting (mainly just on tubercles)
- Faint amount of dark blotches on body
- A faded pastel hypoish background
- Spotted head (no blotches)
- Almost patternless tail (spots only, no blotches)

Now for the red eyed Enigmas characteristics:

- Heavily spotted/blotched body and head (both black and brown)
- Background still looks hypoish, but is not as faded
- Regular spotted/blotched tail

(Kelli posted these pics on Fauna earlier this year)

View attachment 2873

The original thought was the non red eyed were the 'Het' form and the red eyed were the 'Super'. This all changed when Kelli hatched a clutch from a red eyed Enigma x Patternless and got ONE Enigma and a normal. If the red eyed Enigma was the dominant form of a co-dom/dom morph all the offspring would be Enigmas. The new idea was the red eyed Enigma is an albino Enigma. How's that? There's black on them; they can't be albino? Well a few members here did some searching and found a type of albinism called Occular Albinism. It's a type of albinism where only the eyes are effected. So that seems to be figured out.

However, now we have this...

I forgot who took this pic, but give yourself credit...
View attachment 2872

Mark Bell (first produced the Enigma) had this at NARBC Tinley Park and called it an Albino Enigma. Now if the Enigmas had some kind of gene that only allowed albinism to affect their eyes this shouldn't exist.

Here's my thought: The Enigmas do indeed have a 'Super' form and it is the more heavily spotted/blotched form. When in their 'Het' form Enigmas act normally and produces fully amelanistic animals. However, when breed together they create a 'Super' form that cannot produce fully amelanistic animals. I can't explain why the 'Super' form is acting as if the morph were simply dominant and didn't produce 100% Enigmas when crossed to a Patternless...

What do you think?
 
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gixxer3420

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I think you have been doing a ton of research and I think that you did a great job. you helped me understand more about the enigmas.
 

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Thanks man! Ever since Kelli showed these off I've been dreaming up all kinds of ideas. I think this is my best one. I'm really thinking my BSBs have something special and in 4-6 months we'll find out. It's gonna be a very long wait! Once I get bettter pics I think a few others might at least start thinking optomistically for me...
 

gixxer3420

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I'm thinking on the same page as you and man I hope you can produce them. i can't wait to see pics after christmas, they sound really interesting.
 

BalloonzForU

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420Geckos said:
However, now we have this...

I forgot who took this pic, but give yourself credit...
View attachment 2872

Mark Bell (first produced the Enigma) had this at NARBC Tinley Park and called it an Albino Enigma. Now if the Enigmas had some kind of gene that only allowed albinism to affect their eyes this shouldn't exist.


What do you think?


Here's and idea on the Albino Enigma, what if he crossed them with an albino, Bell, Tremper, or RW...and got the ocular of the enigma and the full albino also.
 

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BalloonzForU said:
Here's and idea on the Albino Enigma, what if he crossed them with an albino, Bell, Tremper, or RW...and got the ocular of the enigma and the full albino also.

Nice! I didn't think about that. Two forms of albinism going on in one!
 

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PaulSage said:
Are we placing bets on what it actually is for when it's all figured out? lol

Sure! I'll place a Snow Bell female on my theory... LOL!

There is such a huge difference in pattern and color between the two. That's what leads me to believe one of them is the 'Super' form. Maybe I have it backwards and the non red eyed is the 'Super'? Kelli hasn't posted on their breedings yet... That would explain why the red eyed Enigma didn't produce 100% Enigmas. I wonder if she hatched the other form when breeding red eye x red eye?
 
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LeosForLess

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I dont think bell has the brains to cross an albino with an enigma. I asked him if the onange one u had pictured(by Shanti, at NARBC) was a tang cross and he didnt know what i was talking about:main_laugh:
 
W

wsmitty

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I'm sure someome has already said this, but the heads have a fasciolatus
sort of look to them.
 
O

okapi

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Does any one have any history about these? A friend of mine (indyluckyleos.com) saw them at a show (Tinley park) and was trying to tell me about them but he didnt know much about them himself. And has anyone ever heard about paradox albinos? Ive seen a picture in a book once but it didnt explain anything about it.

thanks
 

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okapi said:
Does any one have any history about these? A friend of mine (indyluckyleos.com) saw them at a show (Tinley park) and was trying to tell me about them but he didnt know much about them himself. And has anyone ever heard about paradox albinos? Ive seen a picture in a book once but it didnt explain anything about it.

thanks

All that is publicly known is that they're at least co-dominant like Mack Snows, but could be dominant. I'm thinking co-dom because there looks to be two different forms. With females now being available, more people will be working with them and we will definitely get some answers next year.

Mark Bell is the only person selling them and it seems he's only selling them at shows unless you're well connected.
 

LeosForLess

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420Geckos said:
All that is publicly known is that they're at least co-dominant like Mack Snows, but could be dominant. I'm thinking co-dom because there looks to be two different forms. With females now being available, more people will be working with them and we will definitely get some answers next year.

Mark Bell is the only person selling them and it seems he's only selling them at shows unless you're well connected.
I think Kelli said in a PM that theyre dominant
 

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KellyTCS said:
What's BSB stand for?

Backstreet Boys... Actually it stands for Black Spot Bell. I have hatched several Bells with black spots and their mother came from Mark Bell before he hatched the Enigmas. I first thought the spots would fade, but they are still as black as ever and more dark coloration is showing up on their bodies. My idea is that the mother is carrying the Enigma gene and these babies got it too. I'll have loads of pics when I get my camera for x-mas.
 

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