Afghan x Tangerine CT ??

[Kwaynebb]

I acquired an afghan female a little over a month ago and noticed while cleaning/weighing everyone that she had began to ovulate. I don't really know much about genetics and morphs but I would like to get some opinions on whether I should breed her to my tangerine male or not, and if they could have any potential for producing good offspring. I know they will not produce any spectacular babies but I am really wanting to do this for a personal achievement.

It would be my first time to breed, but I have been preparing for something like this for months now. I have an incubator I made out of an old wine cooler that I have been testing for several weeks with flex watt and dry runs using perlite and vermiculite to make sure the temp would be constant.

The female is about 9 months of age and is tipping the scale around 49g. She has been a beast when it comes to feeding on superworms, and dubias. I have had calcium in her cage at all times and also have some with d3 on stand by.

I think I have all areas covered, but I just wanted the opinions of the forum veterans. I know this may belong in the breeding forum but I thought I would start here since I wanted to know a little about what possible morphs this could lead to.

-kyle

 

[tiedxupxinxknots]

well first of all i wouldnt recommend breeding a 9 month old female she still needs to develop if you breed her she will have a higher chance of being egg binded and for younger geckos it is recommended to be at around 55g.

 

[pbgeckos]

I guess that would probably depend on your definition of "good". You would most likely have geckos that resemble both parents to some degree or another. Probably will not get offspring as Tangerine or as CT as the original Tangerine CT in the generation. Those are line bred traits and breeding them outside of their lineage will most likely result in offspring with a lesser degree of those specific traits...until you line breed for them some more. Afghans tend to be a little smaller and each will have their own unique bandings and colors. That being said, I would not consider the lack of heavy weight or color to be a bad thing, it just depends on your future goals. Any pair of leopard geckos will create unique offspring...The real question should probably be "What are you trying to achieve in your breeding quest?". Are you trying to breed high quality "Tangerine CTs" or "Tangerine CT/Afghan crosses"...and more importantly, "What do you plan on doing with the offspring"? Have you researched the best practices for minimum weight/age of your breeders? Research, Research, Research

Disclaimer: I am not a "forum veteran" as you requested, but I have been studying and doing this for a long time now.

 

[eyelids]

well first of all i wouldnt recommend breeding a 9 month old female she still needs to develop if you breed her she will have a higher chance of being egg binded and for younger geckos it is recommended to be at around 55g.

I used to buy into that idea too... Now I breed my females when they are ovulating... Have been doing so a few years and egg production has been optimum... Not to mention the ones that seem 'too young' or have yet reached 'maturity' always eat like crazy grow much faster even while laying eggs... That is my personal experience and it's not to say your geckos will grow as fast as mine...

My opinion is if the female is ovulating, eating well and you can offer a constant food source then go for it... Furthermore, Afghans average out to be smaller than your everyday run of the mill gecko... So 49 grams is actually a good size for a female...

As far as the cross, if you have room to keep lots of babies or can re-home them accordingly, then go for it... Depending on the quality of your geckos you could make some stunning babies right out of the gate, but it will probably take many generations to get a perfect cross of the two... On the other hand, if you enjoy each gecko for what they are then I highly suggest pairing her with another Afghan!

 

[katie_]

I used to buy into that idea too... Now I breed my females when they are ovulating... Have been doing so a few years and egg production has been optimum... Not to mention the ones that seem 'too young' or have yet reached 'maturity' always eat like crazy grow much faster even while laying eggs... That is my personal experience and it's not to say your geckos will grow as fast as mine...

My opinion is if the female is ovulating, eating well and you can offer a constant food source then go for it... Furthermore, Afghans average out to be smaller than your everyday run of the mill gecko... So 49 grams is actually a good size for a female...

As far as the cross, if you have room to keep lots of babies or can re-home them accordingly, then go for it... Depending on the quality of your geckos you could make some stunning babies right out of the gate, but it will probably take many generations to get a perfect cross of the two... On the other hand, if you enjoy each gecko for what they are then I highly suggest pairing her with another Afghan!

I still think its a good idea to let a gecko FULLY mature before she is bred. I had my period when I was nine, I was not fully developed to be able to produce a healthy baby...
My dog went into heat when she was 6 months old, same story...

 

[eyelids]

I still think its a good idea to let a gecko FULLY mature before she is bred. I had my period when I was nine, I was not fully developed to be able to produce a healthy baby...
My dog went into heat when she was 6 months old, same story...

Comparing apples to oranges... :main_laugh:

 

[BlondyBish]

I still think its a good idea to let a gecko FULLY mature before she is bred. I had my period when I was nine, I was not fully developed to be able to produce a healthy baby. My dog went into heat when she was 6 months old, same story...

If its old enough to bleed its old enough to breed! Thanks for sharing that irrelevent information with the class.

 

[katie_]

If its old enough to bleed its old enough to breed! Thanks for sharing that irrelevent information with the class.

Its not irrelevent.
Ovulation at an early age does NOT mean you can be bred successfully.

 

[BlondyBish]

Its not irrelevent.
Ovulation at an early age does NOT mean you can be bred successfully.

That is true to an extent. However, it is not a good comparison to make when you look at lifespan. A human female does not even reach peak sexual maturity until they are in their early to mid twenties, and a LG has a maximum life expectancy (in captivity) of 20 years. That is if they are kept under the best conditions. In my opinion it would be better to compare breeding a nine month old gecko to that of a 16 year old human. Neither is recommended but both are capable of producing healthy offspring without causing health issues to the mother. Last but not least if the comparison is going to be made between the two and we look at the average lifespan to breeding maturity ratio. A LG should not be bred until they are about five years old.

human- avg lifespan 80yrs x 25% = 20yrs breeding age (apples)

gecko- avg lifespan 20yrs x 25% = 5yrs breeding age (oranges)

 

[katie_]

That is true to an extent. However, it is not a good comparison to make when you look at lifespan. A human female does not even reach peak sexual maturity until they are in their early to mid twenties, and a LG has a maximum life expectancy (in captivity) of 20 years. That is if they are kept under the best conditions. In my opinion it would be better to compare breeding a nine month old gecko to that of a 16 year old human. Neither is recommended but both are capable of producing healthy offspring without causing health issues to the mother. Last but not least if the comparison is going to be made between the two and we look at the average lifespan to breeding maturity ratio. A LG should not be bred until they are about five years old.

human- avg lifespan 80yrs x 25% = 20yrs breeding age (apples)

gecko- avg lifespan 20yrs x 25% = 5yrs breeding age (oranges)

I'm not sure I understand your stance on this subject.
I'm not looking at comparing lifespans or "leopard gecko years".
The statement was breeding geckos before they reach a healthy weight, or age (which ever comes first) is not a responsible idea.
I used humans and dogs as a vague example, I don't have a magic mathematical equation for geckos.

 

[lillith]

I think she was just trying to point out the flaw in your example. Reptile and mammalian physiology, growth patterns, and sexual maturity are not congruent, so comparing them is incongruent.

But the take-away here is, optimally, a female gecko needs to be up to weight to produce healthy offspring. And general consensus around here is that weight is 50-60g. I would worry about depleting calcium stores in a nine-month-old dam, though. Since her bones just got done growing, even if she is adult size.

To the OP, are you going for a 30 day quarantine or a 90 day one?

 

[Kwaynebb]

To the OP, are you going for a 30 day quarantine or a 90 day one?

She has been on 30+ but I think I'm going to go ahead and move her over. Either way they are all separate but I tried my best not to cross contaminate with the others. Does this sound good or no??

By the way I had no idea this thread would turn out to be so entertaining.