Aptor het raptor question

[Valley Reptiles]

I have an Aptor het raptor that bred SHTCTB het raptor females.
Would all the non raptor babies be 100% het for raptor since the male and females are all 100% hets?

 

[Halley]

Okay here is my definition of the R.A.P.T.O.R./ A.P.T.O.R. / Eclipse morphs (now saved in a word document as I find myself explaining it a lot now. lol)

Explanation of A.P.T.O.R.

The name pretty much says it all Albino Patterless Tremper ORange. When creating this morph Ron Tremper wanted a gecko that was orange, and had no body pattern, and he wanted it to have the tremper albino gene. So basically the A.P.T.O.R. is a sunglow. But there are three sections to this morph

Line Breed Traits
• Carrot-head
• Carrot-tail
• Tangerine Body Color
All these traits are simply line breed. Breed the reddest A.P.T.O.R. with the best carrot-head, and carrot-tail to an equal, you will most likely get offspring with the same traits. Breed the worse A.P.T.O.R. in the world, to the second worse; you will get ugly washed out offspring

Pattern Phases
• Jungle
• Banded
• Patternless Strip
These traits act somewhat unpredictable according to my research (I have never personally done a A.P.T.O.R. x A.P.T.O.R. pairing) however you have the greatest chance of getting the pattern phase you want if you breed two geckos with the desired phase.

Actual Genes
• Tremper albino (recessive allele)
• Sometimes there is the giant gene (co-dominate allele)
These are the actual genes, and the most important part of the A.P.T.O.R. While both the Line Breed Traits, and Pattern Phases are technically line breed, and work by increaser / decrease alleles, the “actual” genes work by a single allele, and can easily be breed in or out.

Explanation of R.A.P.T.O.R.

Same thing as A.P.T.O.R. except R.A.P.T.O.R.s have Ruby eyes (the eclipse gene combined with the an albino genes makes the eyes red), so the acronym is

Ruby eye Albino Patterless Tremper ORange.


Line Breed Traits
• Carrot-head
• Carrot-tail
• Tangerine Body Color


Pattern Phases
• Jungle
• Banded
• Patternless Strip

Actual Genes
• Tremper albino (recessive allele)
• Eclipse Eye (recessive allele)
• Sometimes there is the giant gene (co-dominate allele)

Explanation of Eclipse

The eclipse name, just means that the eyes are black. Nothing more to it.

Line Breed Traits
• Carrot-head
• Carrot-tail
• Tangerine Body Color


Pattern Phases
• Jungle
• Banded
• Patternless Strip

Actual Genes
• Eclipse Eye (recessive allele)
• Sometimes there is the giant gene (co-dominate allele)

As you can see the only diffenece between the three, are the “actual” genes. The A.P.T.O.R. carries only the Tremper albino gene, the eclipse only the eclipse eye gene, and the R.A.P.T.O.R. carries both genes. And all can sometimes carry the giant gene.

So what you have is an A.P.T.O.R. het R.A.P.T.O.R. x SHTCTB, het R.A.P.T.O.R.

So what this is, is your male is caring the tremper albino gene in the homozygous (or visual) form, and the eclipse eye gene In the het form, which means it is not expressed outwardly, or in other words you cannot see the gene, but it is there. (the marketing is really messed up, and inconsistent with the R.A.P.T.O.R., A.P.T.O.R., and eclipse morphs., sometimes A.P.T.O.R., well be called het eclipse, or het R.A.P.T.O.R. both are the same thing basically, het R.A.P.T.O.R. means het Tremper Albino, and het Eclipse. Everybody likes to do it differnetly though, which makes this morph extremely hard to learn.) and a female that is both het Tremper, and het eclipse.

So Tremper albino, het Eclipse (or R.A.P.T.O.R.) x double het tremper, and eclipse.

So what you will get from this paring is

37.5% Het Tremper, 66% het Eclipse
12.5% Eclipse, het Tremper
37.5% Tremper, het Eclipse
12.5% R.A.P.T.O.R.

Or as everybody does thing differently they could be

37.5% Het Tremper, 66% het Eclipse
12.5% Eclipse, het R.A.P.T.O.R.
37.5% A.P.T.O.R., het R.A.P.T.O.R.
12.5% R.A.P.T.O.R.

As you can see they offspring will not be 100% het, this is easier to explain using punnett square, but they don’t stay as square when I put them on this site.

I hope that is some help, Nick

 

[Halley]

Let me know what part, or parts of that don’t make sense, and I will be happy to elaborate.

 

[Valley Reptiles]

The only part that i'm not sure of now is, will the aptors be 100% or will they also be 66% het

 

[Paco]

Ok here is the deal. What the 66% het means that, of the non Visual Eclipse there is a 66% chance that animal has the genes for the particular genetic trait. The genetics wizrad does not use this % it only shows the percentage of the offspring that might carry the genetic trait. So you have 66% Chance that The Albino's will be het eclipse. Hope that make sense.

 

[Halley]

The only part that i'm not sure of now is, will the aptors be 100% or will they also be 66% het

The non-visual eclipse geckos will be 66% not 100%, so the ones without red eyes will have a 66% chance of caring the gene that makes the eyes red.

http://www.geckosetc.com/htm/double_recessive.htm

If you read this you can kidda of get it. If you look at the second cross (F1 generation) you can see that 2 out of 3 carry the genes that they do not show. Sorry if this dosen't make sense, it is just that punnett squares don’t work with this website.

 

[desertgecko]

Halley - Thank you for the info, think I'll also save it to word as a reference

Maybe you could upload the punnett squares somewhere and post it on here as a picture?

 

[godzillizard]

The (r)aptor is essentially a "superstripe albino". The raptor is a "superduperstripe albino"

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

So far, I have never had an Aptor or "possible het" for Raptor prove out to be non-het. You can also make "Patternless Striped" animals without any "Raptor" genes, and hatch Eclipse/Raptor from them. This is why I call my current offerings "probable hets"(because they probably are hets lol)

When RT sold the first Aptors and hets(sold as "non het for Raptor" before the release of the Raptor, for those who knew about them before hand), pretty much all of them proved out as well. If it is an Aptor or even a "het Aptor" it is very likely you have a "het Raptor". The Aptor and Eclipse traits are not simple recessive genes, as you can duplicate them with the right combination of patterning traits.

Aptor can be viewed as the "super" form of the striped lines, and Eclipse can be viewed as the "super" form of Aptor. I believe the patterning traits, "Patternless"(not Murphy`s), and Eclipse traits, to be "co-recessive" genes. The proof for me was hatching the same "new" pattern, and then the eye morph from animals unrelated to any R/Aptor, as was mentioned above. Patterning traits work together to make "new" types, this is why we now have Stripes that came from Jungles, and Reverse Stripes that came from Stripes, etc, etc.

 

[Halley]

Maybe you could upload the punnett squares somewhere and post it on here as a picture?

I might attempt to do that somehow, that isn't a bad idea.

And Dan is dead on, with his description of the alleles. But it will be simpler to do it in a punnett square if you consider it a recessive allele.

 

[godzillizard]

Dan--that was the most eloquent explanation I've heard yet of the pattern/trait evolution--very well expressed