Atheris hispidus Pics

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Picked up 1.1 a short while ago!

 

[GECKOFREAK]

that's awesome!

 

[eyelids]

Cool snake!

 

[Gregg M]

Picked up 1.1 a short while ago!

Very nice Justyn!!!

What are you feeding them??? I know that in the wild they are almost exclusive slug eaters... They usually make make for very difficult captives and do poorly on rodent based diets... That and they are almost always infested with lungworm...

I hope you do well with them... They are pretty awesome snakes...

 

[John N]

Very nice, such an interesting species!

With all the animals that Justyn has/breeds, he prolly breed slugs lol.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Right now they are eating reed frogs, but I am assit feeding pinkies. I'll try some slugs and snails soon. As for the information of them eating slugs, this is all based on a single specimens stomach contents, a slug. No other wild specimens has been examined. They have been kept successfully on rodents for many years, or a mixture. Their head shape does suggest they specialize on snails and slugs, as well as their feeding metheod. They came in really nice, the male had a few mites in his mouth, that was expected. I might pick up a few more. This is a species I've been wanting for many years.

Very nice Justyn!!!

What are you feeding them??? I know that in the wild they are almost exclusive slug eaters... They usually make make for very difficult captives and do poorly on rodent based diets... That and they are almost always infested with lungworm...

I hope you do well with them... They are pretty awesome snakes...

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

You would think, but it's been a few years (yes, I once bred snails & slugs for chameleon food).

Very nice, such an interesting species!

With all the animals that Justyn has/breeds, he prolly breed slugs lol.

 

[Gregg M]

Right now they are eating reed frogs, but I am assit feeding pinkies. I'll try some slugs and snails soon. As for the information of them eating slugs, this is all based on a single specimens stomach contents, a slug. No other wild specimens has been examined. They have been kept successfully on rodents for many years, or a mixture.

Hey Justyn, I would not feed them rodents at all or maybe once in a blue moon if they will accept them on their own without assist or force feeding them... I would stick with frogs only at this point until you can get your hands on slugs... I am not sure what you have heard about this species being maintained on rodents but it is absolutely false... I will get you into contact with a few people who have been keeping this species...

The only known captive breeding of this species took place in Brazil and the person bred slugs in order to keep them fed...They are thriving because of this natural diet... Rodent based diets will slowly kill this species... They get fatty liver disease and usually die within the first year of captivity...

Other than A. chlorechis and A. squamigera, most Atheris species are specialized feeders and do not thrive on rodent based diets for the reason mentioned above...

Think about it, if you need to assist or force feed something rodents, they most likely do not eat rodents in the wild...

Just their natural habitat and behavior would suggest that they do not eat rodents in the wild...

The only reason I am getting this into it is because I would like to see more people keep this species successfully...

Seriously, stay off the rodents...

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

False, I doubt that. One person who maintained them on rodents was Steve Hammack (Kelli Hammacks's husband). They lived at the Dallas Zoo for over eight years, I'm guessing they would have bred, but they were both females. The snake farm in Nairobi has bred this species, on a long term diet of rodents and tree frogs. There is even some evidence of this species feeding on rodents in Uganda. First to understand fatty liver disease, it it unlikley that they get it from eating rodentsa, just being overfeed. Have the specimens that died ever been properly necropsied? From the specimens I know that have been cut open in zoo specimens, it is more likley that they died from acute renal failure (as do most highland species of reptiles). As for assit feeding, I'm needing to get some weight on these specimens. The male is a bit skinny and the female is gravid. They need a little fat storage.

So really, I'm not going into this blindly. I've kept various slug feeding snakes on rodent diets without a problem. I'll still suppliment with frogs, lizards, slugs, and snails. I've had more success then most people with difficult species, producing quite a few for the first time in captivity.

Hey Justyn, I would not feed them rodents at all or maybe once in a blue moon if they will accept them on their own without assist or force feeding them... I would stick with frogs only at this point until you can get your hands on slugs... I am not sure what you have heard about this species being maintained on rodents but it is absolutely false... I will get you into contact with a few people who have been keeping this species...

The only known captive breeding of this species took place in Brazil and the person bred slugs in order to keep them fed...They are thriving because of this natural diet... Rodent based diets will slowly kill this species... They get fatty liver disease and usually die within the first year of captivity...

Other than A. chlorechis and A. squamigera, most Atheris species are specialized feeders and do not thrive on rodent based diets for the reason mentioned above...

Think about it, if you need to assist or force feed something rodents, they most likely do not eat rodents in the wild...

Just their natural habitat and behavior would suggest that they do not eat rodents in the wild...

The only reason I am getting this into it is because I would like to see more people keep this species successfully...

Seriously, stay off the rodents...

 

[nwheat]

Wow, that is a very cool snake! I hope that you are successful with them! Be sure to keep us updated on your progress!

 

[Gregg M]

Like I said, I want to see you do good with this species and this is the info handed to me by people who have kept them alive for more than the first year...

You also stated in an earlier post that no other wild specimens have been examined for gut content, then in this last post you said that there is evidence that they eat rodents in Uganda... Can you point me in the proper direction to some literature where it says this... I have read pretty much everything on them written by Sprawls, Branch, and Laurent including his description paper from 1955 and it says nothing about rodent intake other than they accept rodents in captivity... It was stated by Pitman that the diet of A. hispida is poorly known and is presumed to be like other Atheris species...

Spawls and Branch stated that they "may" forage on the ground for small mammals... No solid evidence in any of the descriptions unfortunately... Solid evidence would be stomach contents but unfortunately there is not enough studies on this awesome species... One snail was found in one animal like you stated...

The venom of Atheris was also believed to be inactive in humans but it is becoming clear that these are very venomous snakes and can kill humans...

So I guess what I am getting at is, I tend to lean more towards info from people who have kept this species without much problem rather than description papers.... People who have kept them on rodent based diets seem to have lost them early on in the captive environment... I think that a varied diet would work out much better than a staple like you suggested... Mix it up but keep the rodent intake to a minimum...

Also, non rodent eating reptiles can have difficulty digesting mammalian proteins and fats, thus causing fatty liver disease and/or kidney failure... However, I do agree that over feeding is a large cause of this as well...

I never implied that you went into this blindly... I was just stating that some of the info out there on this species is either false or unfounded...

I wish you well with these guys... They are beautiful, misunderstood snakes and I would love to see someone produce CBB neonates in the next couple of years...

I am working with a sweet healthy 1.3 group of Atheris ceratophora... This is another poorly studied and misunderstood species and hopefully I can put these guys to work for me...

Anyway, best of luck and PLEASE keep us updated...

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

The observation was made by an exporter I used in the past captured several of these specimens in Uganda, one reguritated a rodent species. It has no been published. As for the venom of the genus, like you said it is very poorly known. Few bites have occured, with the only serious complications being reported from A. squamiger.

As for the diet, I am going with a mix. After talking to Steve who kept these animals on a rodent diet for many years I do not believe rodents cause the kidney and liver failure. I do think though that those that feed snails do tend to keep their animals longer due to the specialized husbandry requirnments they are more likley to meet (then say someone who feeds them just rodents). It is more liley that the animals were kept at improper temps and were not properly hydrated. I have my animals under a fogging system, something that has permited me to keep various highland animals.

I do think the kidney failure has more to do with dehydration and improper temps for an extended period pre and post export. This has been the case with every other species of herp I've worked that commonly dies of acute renal failure.

I like Atheris ceratophora, I think I may get more into this genus over time. Before then though I need to finish a few other projects including sea snakes and hellbenders.

You also stated in an earlier post that no other wild specimens have been examined for gut content, then in this last post you said that there is evidence that they eat rodents in Uganda... Can you point me in the proper direction to some literature where it says this... I have read pretty much everything on them written by Sprawls, Branch, and Laurent including his description paper from 1955 and it says nothing about rodent intake other than they accept rodents in captivity... It was stated by Pitman that the diet of A. hispida is poorly known and is presumed to be like other Atheris species...

Spawls and Branch stated that they "may" forage on the ground for small mammals... No solid evidence in any of the descriptions unfortunately... Solid evidence would be stomach contents but unfortunately there is not enough studies on this awesome species... One snail was found in one animal like you stated...

The venom of Atheris was also believed to be inactive in humans but it is becoming clear that these are very venomous snakes and can kill humans...

So I guess what I am getting at is, I tend to lean more towards info from people who have kept this species without much problem rather than description papers.... People who have kept them on rodent based diets seem to have lost them early on in the captive environment... I think that a varied diet would work out much better than a staple like you suggested... Mix it up but keep the rodent intake to a minimum...

Also, non rodent eating reptiles can have difficulty digesting mammalian proteins and fats, thus causing fatty liver disease and/or kidney failure... However, I do agree that over feeding is a large cause of this as well...

I never implied that you went into this blindly... I was just stating that some of the info out there on this species is either false or unfounded...

I wish you well with these guys... They are beautiful, misunderstood snakes and I would love to see someone produce CBB neonates in the next couple of years...

I am working with a sweet healthy 1.3 group of Atheris ceratophora... This is another poorly studied and misunderstood species and hopefully I can put these guys to work for me...

Anyway, best of luck and PLEASE keep us updated...

 

[Gregg M]

Justyn, you bring up a few point I may have over looked... Too bad the regurged rodent material could not be published... That type of info could prove very valuable...

Not sure if you seen a post by me, but I "built" a hydration chamber for my ceratophora... The only draw back is that I have to disturb the animals 2 times a week in order to get them in the chamber...

In the regular cage, I keep a fairly large water dish directly under their branches in the hopes they might hang over the "pond" and drink... I have not seen them do it and they do not drink during regular mistings... The only time I see them drink is when they have been in the hydration chamber for a number of minutes... Mix not drinking from standing water supply, relatively low temperature and moderate humidity requirements and it can make for a pretty difficult captive...