Big animals in little tubs

[supperl]

Haven´t read te whole thread but I house my groupes in natural Terrariums and what ever you say the love to climb the backwall and run arround. When I introduced some Rack Geckos into their new Home all were like crazy climbing running the whole evening and it happens oftent that I come in the room having a few of them sleeping on the wall.
So rack is good for big breeders but my geckos obviously LIKE to climb the backwall. I dunno if that makes them happier but they use it I provide them with it and it looks damn good.

 

[Lady_Kiya]

I tend to prefer tanks. I think it is more about looks for me than anything else. I am thinking of a way to cover up the side of the tank so that there is no glare. I may have come up with something.

 

[nats]

I tend to prefer tanks. I think it is more about looks for me than anything else. I am thinking of a way to cover up the side of the tank so that there is no glare. I may have come up with something.

That's what I am doing, but it's to cover the reflections.
I have some sky blue (non-shiny) contact paper, actually, its made
of vinyl so it can be cleaned.
I am going to cut and stick to the inside walls (except the front) and
see how that works.
If I dont like it, I can always peel it off, and it's cheap!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Marcia, I am a bit suprized at your post... I think you wrote that more with your heart and feelings for your animals rather than writting what has already been proven in the herpetological field...

Nope, I didn't writ what I wrote from my heart, I wrote if based on my gecko's behavior over the past 14 years of keeping and breeding them. Reptiles DO respond to us, even if it a conditioned response such as feeding or being taken out of their enclosures. They recognize our voices, which is also a 'conditioned' response.

When I am in my gecko room talking, many of the geckos will come out... which they do not do when someone else is talking. They know who is holding them, and if I hand a gecko to another person many times they will respond defensively out of unfamilarity or fear. I do have a few that scratch at the front of their enclosures when I come in because they want to be taken out... not because they want to be held. They just know that if they do that they will be taken out.

I know another breeder who did a school science project with her son with leopard geckos, where they used a 'clicker' just prior to feeding them. It did not take long before the geckos heard the clicker and came out to be fed. This is a conditioned response.

Another case in point is with my GTP. He knows that when I open his cage and have a spray bottle in my hand, it means he will get wet and he automatically buries his head in his coils before I even begin spraying. He does not do this if I don't have the spary bottle in hand. This is also a conditioned response, but a response none-the-less.

Here is a fun link about classical and conditioned responses in reptiles:
Reptile Ranger

 

[Roaming Reptiles]

Just my 2 cents on this. I have a hard time believing that any animal is not smart enough to regonize its owner. My Tremper Albino will tolerate me but when my 2 yr old daughter walks in the room to watch Lola ( Gecko ) will walk down my arn to get to her and I put my daughter in a chair and she holds lola for as long as she likes. In a soft voice she repeats Lola I love lola and strokes her back. All of my leos get held all the time and never have any problems. I have a hard time with saying they have no feelings or they dont know you from anyone else. I think they are smarter than alot people give them credit for.

 

[Sturt]

Ok so everyone who thinks your leos respond to you can continue thinking that... All I know is that in my many years of keeping reptiles not one has ever came to me if called on... They get used to our presence... The do not seek our attention... They do not sit there and think, "oh, here is my owner... Let me scratch at the cage so my human owner will take me out and cuddle with me..."

Nobody is saying they come when called though, just that they do seem to distinguish between people. I have some that can tell me from other people. It is obvious that they only see me as the "Food God" and recognise that my face being around means food might arrive. One of my juveniles will sit and watch me with their front feet on the glass when I'm at the computer, even if there are other people in the room the stare at me.

I think I'm both agreeing and disagreeing with you here. They don't particularly want attention, nor do they want cuddled but they do recognise and distinguish between who their owner is and who is a stranger. They may just like the opportunity to be out and explore some other areas than their enclosure for a change, and actively attempt to attract attention so they can do so. Purely for their own benefit and not because they particularly want to be with us.

I guess until someone invents something that reads their thoughts we'll be having this discussion and arguing over it, because there is no real way to know for sure.

 

[eric]

This is a very touchy subject. So I'll walk lightly. First off when it comes to enclosure size I seriously doubt they care and here's why. These are captive bred animals. They don't know of anything else.
I have had arguments with my sister about this many times that by keeping them in a small enclosure I'm being inhuman to my animals. So I listened and I tried putting my males in a 30 qt iris sweater box. After observing them for a month I came to these conclusion.
-The males stayed in their humid hides all day long. As did they in the 15qt tub.
-Then they came out and sat right next to their humid hides. As did they in the 15qt. tub.
-After a few hours went by,they went on the hunt for crickets or to go eat out of their meal-worm bowls. As did they in the 15qt. tub.
They didn't use the space. They didn't show any signs of being better off in the 30qt. tub, than in the smaller 15qt tubs. What pushed me back to the 15qt. tubs Wasn't only needing the space back, but the uneaten crickets running around the 30qt. tubs. They weren't eaten as well as they were in the 15qt. tubs. Geckos of today are acclimated for life in smaller enclosures IMO!
As for whether geckos or reptiles respond to human voices IMO, yes ,but here's why IMO. Ivan Pavlov. Ring a bell get a treat. Plain and scientifically simple. As much as all of us want to believe that our animals actually care about us ,I personally don't believe their brains are that sophisticated. IMO, am saying this a lot because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. It really all goes back to ring a bell get a treat or food. Repetitive stimuli with reward of basic needs is all that's taking place in there brains. a simple animal response. And again I'm sorry if I have upset anyone its just my thoughts but that doesn't mean I don't love my animals, because I do, they bring me happiness and pure joy, whether they truly understand or not.

 

[eric]

Sorry forgot to include this!

Timothy Treadwell thought that grizzly bears respected him and they were his friends....he and his girlfriend were mauled to death. By a Bear acting on the most basic of all animal instincts. HUNGER! (check out "Grizzly Man")

 

[Pepper]

Thanks for everyone's input! It's greatly appreciated.

Does any of this depend on age? My Leo is still young, and I see him up and about all the time, usually doing something different everyday, sleeping in different places, climbing new things, etc..

I've seen older Leo's who have a pretty basic routine and tend to stick to it.

Now, what about wild caught animals?

I have a young fire skink, and obviously he is probably wild caught. I did have him in a 10 gallon with cover, etc..But felt he needed more room, in the wild he probably would not be in a tank, but he probably wouldn't live in such a tiny area either. I know the area would be partially small, since they stay buried most of the time, but come out to eat and drink and then bury themselves again, so they go back to their own burrow.

So I put him in a 20 long, and I've never seen an animal explore their new home with such excitement. He was crawling through all the tubes, tasting the real plants, crawling into all his hides, surfing around under the soil and would pop up at random times as almost to say, this is mine!!

He has even eaten better since he's been in a larger tank, even though he is still fairly small.

Do some wild caught species do better in large areas, or do they do better in small tub like areas?

I would assume since the tub does not have reflections it would help.