Bizarre tail wounds and 'pinch'

[Taesolieroy]

I've had my oldest gecko, Nathel, for a little over a month now and just tonight noticed an unusual development after feeding. Still not sure about gender but approximate age puts him around 5-7 months old based on size.

I took some photos to show what's going on, but I'll describe it first here as the photos don't show all the details.

Initially the tip of 'his' tail showed an odd shininess starting from the third black band from the tip with a slight 'edge'. It was hard to tell if it was stuck skin, and he recently shed two days ago with no change in that section, where it would probably have gone more opaque with an added layer (correct me if I'm wrong there - going off of intuition). It's got a genetic kink around the middle of the section which I'm not overly concerned about, but I noted an odd 'groove' that made me think that something pinched him there at the exact spot. The tail on either side of these grooves are flush in tapering thickness, so it's rather puzzling.

Looking closer I noticed two spots just behind the mysterious edge that looked like exposed areas where the skin seemed to be chewed away. There are two of them, the one in the photos is the larger one. Mind, when I feed them I actually lift them out of their cage and put them into a special feeding container because there are too many hiding places for the crickets to escape to in their main tank. So there are no crickets currently that would cause that. I keep this pattern with all of my geckos to ensure that not only is their main tank kept clean as possible for when I transition the decor for the new one I'm building, but to make sure they are eating enough food every night.

Onto the photos then - if they could provide better markers for a more experienced owner that'd be great. They were taken while I was giving him an 'emergency' bath in warm water to start home treating for the chance it might be unshed skin, because otherwise he has clean sheds on the rest of his body, and I don't want to waste a vet trip on a minor problem unless this persists enough to need it as rent is coming up and thus is a time of month to conserve money for a bit. I will be asking my local petstore about nearby vets that'll treat reptiles since I know some of the workers there own reptiles personally and had been great help confirming my mental shopping list prior to purchasing geckos.

They are image links because I want the images to be large enough to show the needed detail -

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9214/natheltailinjury.png
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7816/natheltailinjury2.png

Should I treat him over the course of the next couple of days with a 15 min bath every 2-4 hours in case this might be unshed skin?

Side image related only to the fact it was taken at the same time - I noticed an interesting phenomenon with how the air wrapped around the scales to form an 'airskin' and the effect was really neat on the underside of his feet.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4553/nathelbathfoot52812larg.png

 

[Taesolieroy]

Filling out full questionnaire here to keep the post from over-stretching.

About Nathel:
- Sex - currently undetermined, initial checks point to Male
- Age & Weight - 5-7 months, weight unknown yet
- How long I've had Nathel - Going into month 2
- Where was Nathel obtained - Local Petco, he wasn't the largest but he was the only one not skittish about being held.

A) Health/History
- How often do I handel Nathel - every night for a period lasting between 15 minutes -2 hours (includes feeding and out of cage roaming time under careful supervision)
- Nathel's behavior - Appears to be unaffected by the injury, but he's been really drowsy and out of his hide with the heatwave lately so I've been keeping the house cooler so the evening heat tank is low enough to be more comfortable for him and the other geckos.
- Past problems - none so far unless you count an insatiable desire to climb anything and everything and jump from hand to shoulder.
B) Fecals
- Description - Perfectly normal and large due to cricket diet
- When was the last time Nathel went - rough estimate points to 4 hours after last feeding.

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size - 20 gal large divided (grow-out tank, he will be moved into a larger 29 gallon tank once it's re-fitted with a proper lid and a functioning prop custom-tailored to it)
- Type (ex. glass tank) - Acryllic
- Type of substrate - Reptile carpeting
- Hides, how many, what kind - 2 hides 1 half moist/dry on the warm side (aquarium cave), and a dry log on the cool side.
B) Heating
- Heat source - UTH (5 gal sized to allow isolated heat gradient in the grow-out tank)
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) -79-81 on hot side, 76-77 on cool side
- Method of regulating heat source - cloth cover and overall house temp (cage is by a window so diluted sunlight also affects heat gradient)
- What are you using to measure your temps - an old digital thermometer with a probe from back when I kept fish in the same tank
- Do you have any lights (describe) - Natural day light, and evening light (ceiling and bed lamp)
C) Cage mates - None due to undetermined genders, the tank is divided and the other side is being inhabited by a younger gecko
- How many (males, females) 2 isolated unsexed
- Describe health, or previous problems - N/A

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) - crickets every night, 1-2 scoops with the dusting tube (6-8 crickets per scoop - 1/4" size. I've ordered larger crickets earlier today)
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) - in a converted Kreeture Keeper bin floored with a paper towel for easy cleanup of debris every few feedings.
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) - Fluker's Calcium w/ Vit D and Rep-Cal Herptivite Multivitamins mixed in the dusting tube in even ammounts
- What are you gut loading food with - Fluker's Orange cube cricket diet and apples

 

[Taesolieroy]

It's been a while since I posted this, but could someone help me identify what's going on with Nathel? I'll be talking to the local guys to see where they know a nearby affordable vet to take him to if it looks serious enough. He's still eating fine and moving around his tank, even went so far as to sass me with a tail wave a couple times while out of the tank.

 

[ElapidSVT]

looks like the tail was damaged by either being caught in the lid when it was being closed, being bitten by a cage mate, or maybe a rock or other heavy bit of cage furnishing falling on it.

looking at the data, your hot side is about 10F too cold. they really need a temp of 90F or so to properly digest food. this has nothing to do with the injury, just something i noticed in your post that really matters to the overall health of the animal.

I also notice that you are using lights on the cage. this is not a good thing. leopard geckos are nocturnal and lighting of any sort will cause stress which will eventually cause them to stop feeding properly and waste away. get rid of the lights.

if the tail doesn't start turning black (necrosis), it should heal fine. if it starts turning black, it may need to be amputated at a point that removes the dead tissue.

good luck!

 

[Taesolieroy]

Hey Elapsid!

The only lights used are in the evening for me to see in my own room, the tank is mostly covered during that time to block out the light I use to see and to trap heat in as I said. I am fully aware that leos are nocturnal, much like my sugar gliders.

There are no sharp rocks, no tank mate with him, the 'lid' is the heavy fabric cloth to keep heat in until a proper one can be made and doubles as a light cover to blot it out in the evenings. When I lower the animal in I make sure my hand is all the way inside the tank and touching the floor before I let him step off. The sunlight that comes into my room is very muted and looks like early morning/evening at any given time of day except when the sun hits the right angle to shine directly in and produce the effect of a mid-morning light.

I've been seeing the statistics on many other posts that the temp should be more in the 80's though? In the high heat of the day it does reach 84-85 and there hasn't been issues with their digestion as noted.

 

[sausage]

the wounds could very well be the body its self trying to amputate the wounded section.
the kink could also be a sign of the start of MBD which can be linked to poor digestion due to the lack of correct temperatures in your viv.

Looking after a young leo is no different from any other young animal, all the things you do/don't do now will effect it later on.
experienced leo enthusiasts on this site are offering you good advice on how to improve the care of your gecko.

I hope it recovers and keep us posted

 

[ElapidSVT]

correct about the kinking being possibly due to early symptoms of mbd. the wound/pinched area is something i've only seen in animals that had trauma to that portion of the tail. regardless how it happened, just make sure it doesn't start turning black/rotting. a small dab of antibiotic ointment could help, though i've never used that kind of thing and have had reptiles with some pretty horrible looking wounds heal just fine.

room light/ambient light isn't a problem. i see now that i misread the lighting part on your 2nd post. i have a window in my herp room and use the room light when i work on them. this has no effect on their apparent happiness.

as far as the temps, leos need a hot spot that's between 90F-100F to properly digest thier food. air temp and the temp of the cool side don't really matter as long as they are a bit cooler than the hot spot.

hope this helps!
rob

 

[ElapidSVT]

it's not impossible that it bit its own tail while feeding.
they aren't the smartest animals in the world.

 

[Taesolieroy]

Hmm, possible, though it's not gotten any worse since posting the piece, and I found him drowsing in the section of the tank not covered by the heater. I'll be moving him in the near future to his adult tank once I get the props made and prepped for him with a larger heater to compensate. The kink seems genetic though, he's had it since I got him and his body has put on some weight as well.

He does like to spin around fast to nail a cricket that touches his tail come to think of it.. Happens about once or twice every few feedings.

What home ointment would be best to use on such an area? I'm still accustoming him to my contact, and so far the other one in the other side of the tank is trusting me much more readily now versus the little hissing nightmare he/she was when I got 'im. Even got to the point the little leo is starting to edge towards my hand when I inch it to it, but still is hesitant about walking on. Picking up with belly and legs supported with my fingers together in a scoop it's fine with for the moment.

 

[Taesolieroy]

Also I think why the heater is showing me 85 in the afternoon is it's sitting about three inches off the floor. I'll try to pin the sensor to the floor so I can get a better reading, as the river rocks I've touched over the spot definitely feel warmer than 85

 

[PhoenixCoconut]

I don't have much experience with this, but I love your gecko!!!

 

[Taesolieroy]

o3o I take it you looked at his album photos or the ones of his butt and foot on this thread?

 

[katie_]

I'm sorry to say that we're not vets, and this may need the expertise of a vet.

 

[Taesolieroy]

I know you're not vets.. I was kind of figuring some of you may have seen this before which would save me the trouble of vet expenses that would pretty much say the same thing.

 

[Taesolieroy]

Not to mention I've not heard good reviews of the closest one >_>

And.. I think I realized the potential source of the injury... One time he got away from me and under the bed, which has a trundle drawer beneath it, and I had to drag that out to get to him. This was about a week and a half ago, but I remember he ended up rolling with the drawer and may have gotten his tail pinched by a wheel in the process. He was otherwise unhurt and tried to get under the bed before I caught him again.

As far as their diet, I had forgotten to add that they get their calcium and multivitamin (including the D3 that was mixed with the calcium powder) every night feeding and are supplied with a bottle cap of just the calcium & D3 powder in case they potentially needed more between feedings.

Morning update - I checked the thermometer this morning since I moved it down so the probe was touching the flooring, and it did read 90.5 as of 11:40, and that's not the heat of the day yet.