Bold Bandits questions

[kitty]

I'm just starting out with my leo studies before getting my first one(s).

I'm finding myself fascinated by Rainwater Albinos, Bold Stripes, and jungle patterns. At least I have it down to three interests.

Browsing Ron T.'s site, I see Bold Stripes sub-labeled (for lack of a better term) as Bandit. Ron points out in the captions the geckos' black band across the nose. Is that the only distinguishing characteristic between Bolds and Bold Bandits?

Also, in the captions, he suggests crossing Bold Bandits with a Tangerine, then crossing back with the Bold to create Halloweens. That idea intrigues me greatly, but I need to check my understanding. Tangerine is selective breeding rather than genetic recessive, right? and is Bold (Bandit or otherwise) a simple recessive?

Thanks!
Kitty

 

[Halley]

Tangerine is selective breeding rather than genetic recessive, right?

Correct

and is Bold (Bandit or otherwise) a simple recessive?

No, Bold Strip, Bandits, Jungle, and all the other pattern phases, are NOT simple recessive. In fact they themselves are a line breed trait. However some people believe that they act recessive. I actually had a male leopard gecko that had “Strip Genes” which just means that somewhere down the line, a geckos with strip, was breed into him. The female I breed him to, to my knowledge doesn’t have any “strip genes” however one of the hatchlings came out junglish. This suggests to me that the strips are really unpredictable. However you might find it easier to treat it as recessive. As when studding the strip genes, nobody could give me a definite answer (I researched them for months, talking to breeders, and reading articles, etc.) However I think the best way to understand these strip phases, is to work with them yourself. If I was going to create a “Halloween” I would breed a Bold Strip to a Tang, and then the offspring back together though, and then maybe out cross every now and then, into tang, or boldstrip lines. However technically Bold Strip is line breed, and so it Tang.

Hope that makes parcel sense.

 

[boutiquegecko]

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=18695&highlight=bandits

Maybe Marcia can provide some info? Her r2 line has the bold markings and stripe across nose, and she had the line before Ron if I'm correct. When I first saw the "bandit" I thought maybe he got an r2 line gecko somehow and bred it in? Who knows. Marcia's look much bolder and refined though to me.
As for halloween-Albey was working on a halloween mask line that I believe Paul (bright albino) is working on now-there are some pics on his sight. If crossed with a real dark tang where the pattern would stay nice and bold, etc, they would look neat.
As far as stripes/patterns being linebred/recessive-lots of debate there. I think at a point they are some type of recessive, because otherwise how did we get striped or patterned albinos? Or macks?
They are linebred in the way that to get the nicest/boldest stripes you would breed together two nice bold stripes, or a nice bold stripe to a lesser stripe to improve the stripe. Patterns are fun to work with though. Tang would be linebred.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The bold stripe "Bandits" come from a pair of non-bold stripe parents that I have been working with for several years now. They were originally owned by Robin and Russ Struck (that's where the 'R2' comes from). Almost ALL of their offspring have that signature band across their noses. I can tell just by looking at a Bold Stripe if it came from that line!

So, even though other breeders have some of those offspring and re-named them "Bandits", they are from the R2 line.

 

[boutiquegecko]

I knew it Sad they are being marketed as something else as "new". I have some of the r2 genes and that makes me happy.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The original pair are getting old now, and the female only lays one or two clutches a year, most are single eggs. I have held back the BEST offspring from that pair, as well as crossing them into my own GGG line of Bold Stripes.

Here are the pics of the original R2 parents and the GGG original parents, and some examples of how the Bold Stripe has evolved:

 

[yellermelon]

What I learned from this thread:
Together the two lines have made some ...sexy sexy geckos

 

[Ccrashca069]

Your Bold stripes are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! Marcia

 

[efx*]

Nice!!!

 

[PacHerp]

wow, Marcia.. now THAT is cool!!!! Very very nice visual.... Thanks!

 

[kitty]

Awesome! Thanks for the explanation and discussion. The selective breeding aspect of leos makes it more of a gamble than the straight-ish genetics of my corns. Too cool.

Marlo, I don't believe Ron's intent is to market them as a "new" thing. He has them clearly labeled as Bold Stripes. He just added the Bandit and pointed out the nose-bar. Someone more experienced in the gecko world may be aware that Bandit is actually from R2 lines right away. ... And now I know, too.

Marcia, those F2 gens have a major drool-factor. Have you been able to cross them and get reasonably true inheritance of that pattern?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Have you been able to cross them and get reasonably true inheritance of that pattern?

Yes!!! I am waiting for my new camera to arrive so I can take photos! There are some really cool '08 babies from these projects I want to show... (They are freakin' incredible...)

 

[PacHerp]

They are freakin' incredible...

Marcia... that is an understatement!!!

I can't WAIT for you to post images of your little ones from this year!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

LOL, Brittney has seen them 'up close and personal', so she has had an in-person sneak preview of the newest '08 bolds.

I also wanted to share with you that I have produced a couple of 'bold' jungles from this project, as well as a 'bold' banded (het stripe???). Here is a pic of one of the 'bold jungles', as well as the only 'bold banded' from this project. The bold banded is young in this photo, but you can still tell that the bands are becoming very well-defilned at the edges of ths stripe. (Notice the "Bandit" stripe across th nose of the bold banded:

 

[eric]

Marcia, I never get tired of your bold stripes!!!W0W!!!

 

[Halley]

Your Bold Strips are AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DanTheFireman]

Even though it's a line bred trait, you would think the jungle/stripe is a simple recessive most of the time but every so often you get one with a banded tail. Here are three from this year, siblings from the same parents. The father is seven years old now, originally from Tremper's bold jungle lines.
The stripey jungle is one I purchased in 1995, Tremper origin. He did some articles in the mid 90s showing some very cool Bolds, saying the jungles/stripes just popped out after thirteen years of breeding normal bandeds, and also mentioned "bandits" back then.