Breaking the cycle

[acpart]

I could use some creative thinking here. I have a super snow, Oskar, who's about 5 years old. he was one of my breeders but I retired him because of what I'll describe below. Every year, in early winter, Oskar goes into a decline. His nostrils get plugged. He starts mouth breathing and ends up getting a sore on his lip and frequently an upper respiratory infection. He has trouble shedding, especially around the nose and mouth and then has more scabby bloody stuff around his mouth from the stuck shed and rubbing at it. He goes to the vet and gets antibiotics for the URI and/or mouth sores. This further decreases his appetite. He usually eats nothing between about Jan. and May and drops 20 grams. He does not get fatty liver disease. He gets daily care from me, trying to coax him to eat and gently trying to peel off stuck shed from the nose and mouth area.

He's housed like my other leopard geckos: he's by himself in a 20 gallon long with UTH keeping it in the low 90's on the hot side, humid hide, dry hide, water dish etc. When he eats, he prefers superworms. His feeders get dusted with Repashy calcium plus (which I've been told has vitamin A in the proper form, so I don't think it's a vitamin A problem). When he doesn't eat, I make a paste of water and Calcium plus and rub it on his nose so he gets adequately supplemented.

This past winter he looked so bad I thought I was going to lose him. His head got that emaciated, sunken look and his mouth was all scabby. He got down below 60 grams (during the summer he's usually about 85 grams). I got to the point where I was disemboweling superworms and pushing the guts nto his mouth with a syringe.

May comes, and he becomes a new gecko: he started eating, his nose and mouth cleared up, he's gaining weight. When I go to feed him he's pacing back and forth waiting for those superworms and he'll eat 3-5 evey other day. He looks great.

Any thoughts on how to keep him healthy through the winter? The house doesn't get that cold (I thought it did, but the gecko room ambient temp is actually in the low 70's most of the time). I plan to ask my vet the same question, but any opinions are helpful.

Aliza

 

[sausage]

poor thing, sounds like an aweful time. The only thing I was going to as was about the temp but you already talked about that at the end. A temp drop is the only thing I can think of that might cause a drop in the immune system.
I really hope you can find a solution.

 

[favrielle]

Ok, completely random thought, here, and I might be totally off-base.

There are some people who are allergic to cold. Literally. They have an allergic response to cold exposure. It's apparently quite miserable.

While your guy is a gecko, not a mammal, maybe he's less tolerant of the low-70s temps that your other geckos manage just fine. Is there any way you could give him a small CHE to keep the air temp in his enclosure a bit higher that the surrounding room this winter?

 

[Nooon]

...sorry - double posted. Removing this one. Read below.

 

[Nooon]

Yes. I too think the temperature is a key here. ...well... at least a key you could change. Other keys you can control is general care - food, hygene, etc... but those things seems to be OK. Other keys are for the vet.


About temperature - My leo definitely does not "work" at all when I turn the heating off. Leos are supposed to have a cooler night temp and a cooler period in the winter. I just can´t do that with my leo. She shuts down totally. So I keep the temperature up at all times. She still has her yearly low period each midwinter and she spends it in the warm end of the terrarium - it gets a a little bit cooler than in the summer due to the weather but not so much. I don´t dare to let the temp in the warm end ever exceed 35 C (=95 F) but i keep it at least 32 C (=90 F) I try to keep the cool end at 25-26 C (77-78 F) - in the winter it gets a bit lower and in the summer during the hottest days it gets warmer. Then she moves to live at the cool end under the waterbow. But not for long - just for the hottest days. Generally she seems to prefer a little higher temperature than most leos - the low 70:s is not for her.


There was a site called DrGecko.com that was like a vets guide to geckos... but it´s gone and i can´t find any site as extensive and informative as that. While it existed I printed out a lot of it. I´ve started reading to find an answer to you poor little leos problem... but, in addition to the things I´ve already mentioned, there are so many possible reasons and they do still require diagnose and treatment of a vet.
It could be parasitic, fungi, bacteria, metabolic... and temperature! Here are some links I found that shortly describe symptoms and possible causes:
Leopard Gecko Illness/Diseases |
Bearded Dragon Health, Illness, & Disease Symptoms (about bearded dragons... but they have the same disceases)
Respiratory Disease


Maybe you´ve already read about all this but I post it anyway, just in case.


... I dont know about feeding him vitamin paste when he does not want to eat... be careful so that vitamins are not overdosed. I killed some feeder insects when i tried to make them extra-healty food by giving them extra calcium and vitamins. Either the pH was changed too much by the calcium or they got poisoned by too much vitamins... or both. I know that vitamin D and A are toxic in too high levels.
(When i force fed my little leo I gave her squeezed out Zophobas and crickets (no exoskeletons) with just a tiny, tiny little bit of calcium and vitamin. Now, note that I do not recommend force feeding without consulting a vet first!)

 

[acpart]

THanks for all the responses. Temperature is definitely something to check out, though he spends nearly the entire winter inside his dry hide right on top of the UTH (the hide traps the warm air from the UTH so it's always warm in there). I have a CHE while I"ll plug in when it gets cold. A note about the calcium paste: it's a very small amount which I only give him about once a month because otherwise he's getting no calcium at all when he's not eating. Hopefully I'll have better news this winter.

Aliza

 

[Nooon]

Maybe you should get him some UV. I know that especially in the US it is said that they don´t need it... but where I´m from there are many voices that speaks for all animals to have it. It is said the leos in the wild most likely gets some of the suns last light at sunset. My leo has always had it. I buy her a 5% UV flourescent lamp. The 10% is too much and hurt hers and my eyes. The 2% is so weak it does not reach her at the bottom of the terrarium. She has got a lot of hides that are dark or partially dark and she stays hidden - she never basks... but for sure she does get some of the UV. The hides are not pitch-black and sometimes she takes a peak. I believe it does her immune system good.

 

[Nooon]

Oh, all winter in a dry hide! No wonder he has problems shedding. My leo lives in her warm humid hide. Maybe he thinks there´s something wrong with the humid hide. Maybe it´s not warm enough? Check the humidity in the dry hide. I believe you might find it to be worse than in the Sahara. Way too dry! Leos at least where I come from are said to find a little more humid spaces in their hides under rocks and under ground where they spend most of their time. The humidity is also said to increase slightly in the evening. Therefore it is recommended that the terrarium is misted with water every evening.
Sometimes when I spray the terrarium my little leo comes out of her hiding and seems to enjoy the fine mist of lukewarm water. At the moment I´ve forgotten the levels of humidity in the terrarium. I´ve lost my hygrometer and the levels in the terrarium has been OK for so long and I have not changed anything... so to be honest - I have not checked the humidity levels for a while. I´ve ordered a new hygrometer.

 

[Nooon]

Hi, again... I´ve done some reading. The level of humitiy found under ground in the areas where Leos live in the wild is about 65%. For problem free shedding it is said that there should be a humidity of 40-60% or even 70% in humid hides.

 

[acpart]

I should have been clearer: He has a dry hide and a humid hide which are both over the UTH. He probably spends time in both and I spray the humid hide regularly.

Aliza