breeding question please..

[sheepherder]

I have a 6 gecko breeding group, 1 M and 5 F. I have rotated putting the ovulating females with the male, 1 on 1 for 48hrs. each, twice. Once toward the beginning of the ovulation cycles, then again further along. I have also divided them up into small groups.. 2 or three females with him for 5 to 7dys. then switched out with 2 or three different females.
What i'm getting at is that he's had ample opportunity to mate with all of them on numerous occasions, but iv'e not once seen him mate with any of them. Iv'e herd his tail going plenty of times while in the room doing other things but never while i'm watching (from about 5ft away for a half hour at a time).

My question is this..
if a female is clean after being taken out of the males enclosure (no identifying copulation marks) is it probable that they did not mate?
2 of my females had the bite marks on the tail, going up the sides, and behind the neck, so i'm fairly certain that they have been mated. All of my other females have no bite marks or skin breaks at all.
Is it possible/probable that they mated even though there are no telltale signs?
It makes me wish i bought a second male (same morph), so i could witness the deed and have the piece of mind of knowing i'll be getting fertile eggs. :main_thumbsup:
Until i know for sure, i guess i'll keep putting them together and hoping for the best?

 

[acpart]

I'm in a little different situation because I keep my leos in 1.3 groups all season. The presence or absence of bite marks is no guarantee. If you check the females' bellies, when they're ovulating you'll see the pink spheres and as the eggs develop, you'll eventually see the eggs lower and more toward the sides. I have had at least 1 male that I never saw mate with the female in several years of breeding yet I got healthy hatchlings every year.

Aliza

 

[staceyleigh]

I haven't found bite marks on any of mine, yet I know they mated as I watched them! This is my first year so not much experience here, the male has mated with 2 females 3 times each, but never left marks.

 

[tb144050]

I haven't found bite marks on any of mine, yet I know they mated as I watched them! This is my first year so not much experience here, the male has mated with 2 females 3 times each, but never left marks.

^^ +1. I have pretty much the EXACT same answer. I have 2 pair of breeders that have mated 3 times each...they did it with no hesitation or reservation about me watching (for safety).

The bite marks you DO see are just incidental "love marks" but not everyone "gets a hickey." Just be sure that they are NOT Fight-Bites....lol The Fight-Bites are the most prominent because "no means NOOOO" and the fights can get dangerous.

 

[sheepherder]

I'm in a little different situation because I keep my leos in 1.3 groups all season. The presence or absence of bite marks is no guarantee. If you check the females' bellies, when they're ovulating you'll see the pink spheres and as the eggs develop, you'll eventually see the eggs lower and more toward the sides. I have had at least 1 male that I never saw mate with the female in several years of breeding yet I got healthy hatchlings every year.

Aliza

Thats good to know. it kind of puts my mind at ease knowing that he could be mateing them whether there are marks or not. Iv'e gotten pretty good at identifying the ovulation and the stages of it. I put them in with him 1 on 1 first, at the beginning of ovulation and then again farther along.
There going to develop and lay eggs whether or not they've been mated though, right?
Iv'e gotten 7 eggs so far. 2 more this morning actually. it was Rhea's 2nd clutch and they look fertile. Bulls eyes and spirally veins in both and there nicely shaped, firm and white, so i know she's good to go.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[sheepherder]

I haven't found bite marks on any of mine, yet I know they mated as I watched them! This is my first year so not much experience here, the male has mated with 2 females 3 times each, but never left marks.

I wish i could/ had the time, to watch them constantly to see it happen but after a half hour or so, if they still havent mated, they go back in the rack where it's difficult to see them if there not in the front of the tubs. They hide behind the hides mostly when there in the rack, or inside the moist hides where there out of my view.
I have a vision rack.
I'm debating mating them in groups from now on though, because i hear him vibrating his tail a lot more often when he's in with 2 or three of them. I just like to put the females back in there enclosures after a week or so because ifi were to leave them in there, i'd run into problems identifying exactly which female layed which eggs. I keep detailed info on everything and its important to me to know exactly who the hatchlings belong to.
Thanks for answering my post!

 

[sheepherder]

^^ +1. I have pretty much the EXACT same answer. I have 2 pair of breeders that have mated 3 times each...they did it with no hesitation or reservation about me watching (for safety).

The bite marks you DO see are just incidental "love marks" but not everyone "gets a hickey." Just be sure that they are NOT Fight-Bites....lol The Fight-Bites are the most prominent because "no means NOOOO" and the fights can get dangerous.

lol
Iv'e been lucky in the sense that i haven't had any fighting, except for one incident where one of the females bit another female in a group setting. It was quick though and she let go quickly. I think she was just letting her know she's the dominant female. lol
None of the females has attacked the male, at least in the half hour or so that i'm watching. They just pull away from him and give him a little warning. It's frustrating because they'll do this even when there way into ovulation and absolutely ready. Hopefully there all just shy or something.
One time i was checking in on them on a one on one, the room was fairly dark and when they sensed i was watching all i could see was her little head pop up through the hole in the warm hide, look at me for a second, then retreat back down. He was sitting on top of the hide and they were both looking at me like "excuse me, could we have a little privacy please...jeeese". lol
it was funny

 

[tb144050]

I'm debating mating them in groups from now on though, because i hear him vibrating his tail a lot more often when he's in with 2 or three of them.

.

I just like to put the females back in there enclosures after a week or so because ifi were to leave them in there, i'd run into problems identifying exactly which female layed which eggs.

First quote: Yep...I'd be vibrating my tail in that scenario alot also! lol

Second quote: Very good logic! However, remember that females are more "receptive" when they are less (or not) stressed. I have previously read that some breeders have "more receptive females" when the male is introduced to the female's tank. Simply bringing a female out of her tank can stress her atleast a little bit. Changing her "home location" every week (from her tank to his to hers to his), might be a bit too much moving for her. I would probably move the male from female tank to female tank. He probably won't mind shacking up in a new tub each week?? lol

 

[Samantha12]

I agree you should try bringing the male to the females separately. Also, you can try checking their stomachs to see if there's egg formation. Wishing you luck!

 

[sheepherder]

I agree you should try bringing the male to the females separately. Also, you can try checking their stomachs to see if there's egg formation. Wishing you luck!

Ok, this is where i get confused.
Aren't the females going to develop and lay eggs anyways, whether or not they've been mated/inseminated??
If i'm wrong about this, someone please set me straight, because that would save me a lot of wondering/guesswork.
I'm getting good at judging the egg development and when i think they will lay, by the placement of the eggs in the abdomens, as well as ovulation. No problems there.
Its just that your not the first person to bring up "checking for egg development".

 

[sheepherder]

First quote: Yep...I'd be vibrating my tail in that scenario alot also! lol

Second quote: Very good logic! However, remember that females are more "receptive" when they are less (or not) stressed. I have previously read that some breeders have "more receptive females" when the male is introduced to the female's tank. Simply bringing a female out of her tank can stress her atleast a little bit. Changing her "home location" every week (from her tank to his to hers to his), might be a bit too much moving for her. I would probably move the male from female tank to female tank. He probably won't mind shacking up in a new tub each week?? lol

See, from my research, i'm reading that it's actually better not to move the males into the females enclosures because that stresses them out more than moving males in there "safe space".
Iv'e been advised that the female will get stressed by the presence of a male in her "safe haven", so to speak, where as the male could care less about females being put in his space ( he probably appreciates the hell out of it actually) lol.
I guess it's just a matter of opinion really. Its interesting the amount of diversity between breeders and the way they do things.
Thanks for the advice and reply. I'll have to look into it more and make up my mind from there.

As far as the group thing, I'm no longer going to put them in groups as i'm finding quickly, that it's unnecessary. I was worried for nothing as it appears that all have been successfully mated and i'm getting fertile egg, after fertile egg.

 

[sheepherder]

I think i just need to relax and go through all the needless worry that someone new is going to subject themselves to. You know..over-analyzing everything ( did i do this right...did i do that right??) There's a learning curve for everything, in my experience, and its natural to make some mistakes while learning.

The key is to learn from them and not repeat them....

 

[tb144050]

Yep, I am learning and stressing at the same time too. Please remember, the "recommended mating location in her tank" is just something I read somewhere... I can't vouch for it yet.

 

[sheepherder]

I'm pretty sure i read it in Tremper's new book, or it could have been in a different book or online, or....
lol.