Brown relouse i think

[thegeckoguy23]

Well i cought a brown recluse i think and im keeping it.


Its a brow recluse i think not sure tho lol its still a sling.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

Also I am feeding it the smallest mellies i have ones it starts eating its WAY LESS THEN A IN also i breed my own feeders so i have some VERY SMALL mellies so i think i well be ok

 

[thegeckoguy23]

ok well i found it on the top of its vial so i just let it go lol, so munch for that... Now i want some peeds



Jake

 

[M_surinamensis]

If your Location is accurate on your profile, it was probably not a brown recluse. Maybe if you found it in a garden center full of plants that had just been shipped up from down south.

The range doesn't extend anywhere even close to New Hampshire though and they have not established invasive populations in the North East. There are reports of them having been transplanted and breeding in the South West (also not their natural range)- but many of these are highly suspect because the spider is rarely IDed by someone qualified to do so.

 

[neubauer geckos]

ok well i found it on the top of its vial so i just let it go lol, so munch for that... Now i want some peeds



Jake

i have a scolopendra subspinipes for sale if your looking for pedes...pm me for details!

 

[thegeckoguy23]

i have a scolopendra subspinipes for sale if your looking for pedes...pm me for details!

Oh yea your is beautiful! I thought you said it was not a begginner species?



Jake

 

[thegeckoguy23]

If your Location is accurate on your profile, it was probably not a brown recluse. Maybe if you found it in a garden center full of plants that had just been shipped up from down south.

The range doesn't extend anywhere even close to New Hampshire though and they have not established invasive populations in the North East. There are reports of them having been transplanted and breeding in the South West (also not their natural range)- but many of these are highly suspect because the spider is rarely IDed by someone qualified to do so.

It was to small to be IDed... Hmh I think theres brown reclouse in NH because in scinice class we had one in the room and thats wat the teach said... Maybe it was math class lol.


Jake

 

[M_surinamensis]

It was to small to be IDed...

Just need better magnification.

Hmh I think theres brown reclouse in NH

I promise, there aren't- with the exception of the remote possibility of individual spiders being transported up from someplace inside their actual range.

because in scinice class we had one in the room and thats wat the teach said.

Other spider species are frequently misidentified as recluse.

Necrotic effects are also frequently misidentified as being recluse envenomations.

It has to do with a sort of inaccurate common knowledge and sensationalism. If you stop a random person on the street and ask them to name as many spider species as they can, they will probably give you "black widow, brown recluse, tarantula." as an answer, sometimes they will throw in "wolf spider"- because they simply do not know that much about them. So the remember the names of the few that can potentially produce clinically significant effects and they remember the big weird oddities. They are often never really exposed to anything else to begin with.

There are thousands and thousands of species of brown spider. There are thousands more that have lighter tan markings. Hundreds where it is a sort of violin shape (especially if you squint and/or are very liberal with your definition of "violin shape"). Only one of them is Loxosceles reclusa.

Count the eyes. Look for fused chelicerae. Know your native species.

 

[robin]

Just need better magnification.




I promise, there aren't- with the exception of the remote possibility of individual spiders being transported up from someplace inside their actual range.




Other spider species are frequently misidentified as recluse.

Necrotic effects are also frequently misidentified as being recluse envenomations.

It has to do with a sort of inaccurate common knowledge and sensationalism. If you stop a random person on the street and ask them to name as many spider species as they can, they will probably give you "black widow, brown recluse, tarantula." as an answer, sometimes they will throw in "wolf spider"- because they simply do not know that much about them. So the remember the names of the few that can potentially produce clinically significant effects and they remember the big weird oddities. They are often never really exposed to anything else to begin with.

There are thousands and thousands of species of brown spider. There are thousands more that have lighter tan markings. Hundreds where it is a sort of violin shape (especially if you squint and/or are very liberal with your definition of "violin shape"). Only one of them is Loxosceles reclusa.

Count the eyes. Look for fused chelicerae. Know your native species.

we have recluses bleh! we got all kinds of nasties down here in texas!

 

[M_surinamensis]

we have recluses bleh! we got all kinds of nasties down here in texas!

Yeah, you're in that big band across the southern US which is designated as "present as an established invasive" and the eastern edge of the state and along the coast were part of the natural range for them anyway.

They aren't that nasty though. I kind of like them. ... I sometimes use Loxosceles as an internet handle if I can't space or underscore the name I use here and am disinclined to just register as Seamus for whatever reason.

 

[Stl_Greaser]

I find probably a dozen recluse a month at work! Found one right in the front of the 1/4-20 nut bin!! Good thing I always look before I reach in to holes or anything! I would not recommend a spider like a recluse as a pet. They are rather fast moving and can get in and out of damn near anything. I killed a whole lot of these things in my 3 years as a pest control field tech! NOT A SPIDER YOU WOULD WANT TO BE BITTEN BY!

 

[thegeckoguy23]

I find probably a dozen recluse a month at work! Found one right in the front of the 1/4-20 nut bin!! Good thing I always look before I reach in to holes or anything! I would not recommend a spider like a recluse as a pet. They are rather fast moving and can get in and out of damn near anything. I killed a whole lot of these things in my 3 years as a pest control field tech! NOT A SPIDER YOU WOULD WANT TO BE BITTEN BY!

Oh yea I googled brown reclouse bits.



Jake

 

[M_surinamensis]

Most of those photos are not recluse bites.

The chelicerae of brown recluse are fused. The spider literally cannot mobilize them in order to penetrate most of the areas of skin on the human body without severe trauma being done to the spider itself- we're mostly composed of surfaces that are too broad for them to bite. This is why most actual envenomations happen when someone rolls over onto one or shoves their hand or foot into a place where the spider happens to be- the spider is crushed but the tips of the chelicerae are smashed into contact with the skin.

Then... most legitimate envenomations do not develop the necrotic effect. Most of them develop as an irritated pustule immediate surrounding the bite area, which clears up in a couple days.

If they do go necrotic, treatment is actually quite easy- slap a nitroglycerin patch on it and it is done.

It is the number one, worldwide, most frequently misdiagnosed envenomation on the planet. There are literally hundreds of causes for necrotic tissue damage but the spider venom stays in the memory. Medical doctors rarely have an education in arachnidology that is sufficient to genuinely identify a species of spider based on the pathology of a bite but they saw that special on animal planet damnit and they are the ones who get to write on the chart. They then often go on to prescribe completely ineffective forms of treatment- or treatment that would be ineffective if it was actually a recluse envenomation. Antibiotics and oxygen therapy are two common courses, which would not do a damn thing to help a person who's skin was actually full of spider venom.

Recluse bites which actually cause the necrotic effect and are actually verified as being a recluse bite (the spider is collected and IDed by someone who is qualified to ID spiders) follow a very specific pattern of advancement. There are extremely specific symptoms that develop along a fairly specific timetable. Most of the photos that crop up in the google search are not displaying those symptoms. Recluse necrosis is a very dry rot, with a very narrow band of actively inflamed tissue around the edge, colors run in a very specific "bullseye pattern" for the inflamation and there is very little pus or scabbing.

Here's s a few links, if you like...

The late but still great Dr. Breene chiming in on the subject, he was quite literally The Authority when it came to arachnidology in general and North American species specifically- http://atshq.org/articles/sbadwp.html

Here's a decent page by a dermatologist that discusses how frequently and why the spider bite is usually a misdiagnosis made by knee-jerk ER generalists- http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol5num2/special/recluse.html

Here's an extended list of causes for necrosis other than Loxosceles venom- http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

 

[BrilliantEraser]

I sometimes use Loxosceles as an internet handle if I can't space or underscore the name I use here and am disinclined to just register as Seamus for whatever reason.

I've been meaning to ask about that. Why do you use the scientific name of a giant sea snail as your handle?

Also, yes, necrotic tissue is almost *always* misidentified as a spider bite. The other day, a co-worker showed us a large red rash on his side. One girl I work with immediately declared it a spider bite. She's a nursing major too, doncha know? I looked more closely at it and said that it was most likely a tick bite, and that the bullseye rash would be more likely linked to Lyme disease (since we live in Connecticut).

Co-worker went to the doctor, and was diagnosed with Lyme disease. I win!

 

[Tony C]

I've been meaning to ask about that. Why do you use the scientific name of a giant sea snail as your handle?

I could be wrong, but I assumed it was the coral snake Micrurus surinamensis. Or maybe he thinks snails are sexy...

 

[M_surinamensis]

I could be wrong, but I assumed it was the coral snake Micrurus surinamensis. Or maybe he thinks snails are sexy...

Snails are pretty awesome, but yeah- the intent was the coral snake and the full nomenclature rarely fits into the character limit for names.

I'll add snails to the list though, there are a lot of (Genus) surinamensis out there, plants, fish, insects- I believe a bird or two.

I like the snakes a great deal though. They get big, upwards of six feet or so. They're highly aquatic, which always means some interesting adaptations in reptiles. They defy the rhymes that are used by some people to distinguish corals from nonvenomous species. And South American corals are pretty neat anyway because they represent examples of Müllerian* mimicry and Batesian mimicry and Mertensian mimicry simultaneously. Between the corals and the rear fanged venomous colubrids and the completely venom free colubrids, all with similar banded patterning and those color tendencies** and the way other non-snake species respond to that banded tri-color appearance... it's just really neat, the evolutionary relationships involved.

*the character map makes it a lot easier to type that than trying to remember the alt combination.

**which also function as a sort of camouflage, believe it or not. Very difficult to see a red, black and yellow snake sitting in leaf detritus with mottled lighting creating patches on a forest floor. Also difficult to properly track their movement when they start slithering, the bands kind of run together and create optical illusions.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

I've been meaning to ask about that. Why do you use the scientific name of a giant sea snail as your handle?

Also, yes, necrotic tissue is almost *always* misidentified as a spider bite. The other day, a co-worker showed us a large red rash on his side. One girl I work with immediately declared it a spider bite. She's a nursing major too, doncha know? I looked more closely at it and said that it was most likely a tick bite, and that the bullseye rash would be more likely linked to Lyme disease (since we live in Connecticut).

Co-worker went to the doctor, and was diagnosed with Lyme disease. I win!

One time I got a bulls eye. lol during turkey season in NH (my home state) never got lyme deaease though.



Jake

 

[BrilliantEraser]

Yup, I was referring to Murex surinamensis, a giant predatory sea snail. I thought that alone was pretty cool. The coral snake you mentioned is all right, I guess. :laugh:

So, I know what Müllerian and Batesian mimicry entail. What is Mertensian mimicry? I don't think I've ever heard of that term before.

 

[Tony C]

I'm so helpful.

 

[Taquiq]

Yes you are :0