Calcium Carb Powder

[goReptiles]

I was searching ebay and found this calcium carb powder. I've never seen it before. I'm curious if it's the same thing as the regular calcium that you buy at the pet store.

EBAY link

 

[SteveB]

effectively.. but read this first and decide if the potential impurities are worth exposing your animals to http://www.graniteland.com/stone/info/limestone.php

 

[tronicsman]

I would stick with a good well known brand of calcium powder

 

[goReptiles]

Jason, I figured I'd just stick with a brand, but I was just curious about this stuff. I've never seen it before and if it was really the same thing, it'd be a better deal. But, I'm always iffy about buying something different.

Thanks Steve for the link.

 

[SteveB]

I was just reading one source that states limestone is 40% calcium earlier... I'll find it again later...

 

[Leopardbreeder]

That is fine to feed to animals. Calcium Carbonate is the identical thing that is in rep-cal. Ever use a cuttle bone? That is a bone directly (cleaned of course) from a fish.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I use human-grade, pure calcium carbonate powder from NOW Foods. It's really cheap ($4.12 for 12 oz.), and is as fine as powdered sugar, so it sticks to the feeders very well.

 

[Ccrashca069]

I am using a bottle of what Marcia is using and I have Rep-Cal. Both work awesome for me.

 

[syntheticreality]

tums have lots of calcium too!!

but i dont think those would be good for geckos

 

[Gecko Ranch]

tums have lots of calcium too!!

but i dont think those would be good for geckos

Yes indeed, and if you over supplement your geckos with extra calcium, which they will happily eat, you are in effect giving them Tums! I used to also leave out dishes of calcium carbonate until I learned this from Allen Repashy. He explains:

Too much calcium, even without too much D-3, becomes a binder for essential vitamins and nutrients. Vitamin A in particular. The calcium blocks the absorbtion of these vitamins. In many geckos, especially leopards, the vitamin A problem can be seen with too much calcium in the materialization of eye deformities.. one big eye or small eye... Too much calcium can nearly completely block the absorbtion of vitamin A, which has visible effects..... there could also be other non visible effects from it blocking vitamin A and other vitamins, like reduced hatch rates (which are also seen with too much calcium)

If you look at calcium powder, you can picture the "Got Milk" commercial. It is a powder that will absorb moisture out of the body, and if it coats the lining in the stomach with crust, the animal can't absorb anything. It also neutralizes digestive acids....

Have you ever heard of Tums? Look at the ingredients.. it is nearly pure calcium carbonate. A 500 mg (half a gram)tablet is strong enough to eliminate acid indigestion in a 150 pound human! so what do you think that eating a bowl of calcium that size (you said your gecko ate similar amount) will do? Lets say you have a 30 gram gecko eating a half a gram of calcium, or the same amount as a tums tablet.... hmmm So that means the gecko is eating about 1.5% its body weight in calcium.... So if you weigh 150 pounds, what do you think would happen if you ate 2.25 pounds of calcium in a sitting? LOL Do you think you would absorb your dinner? or even have room to eat it?
Most prescription drugs warn that if you eat calcium or other antacids that your body might not absorb the drug properly.... or anything for that matter.. .....

.

Pretty eye-opening! His all in one supplement, Calcium Plus (also sold through T-Rex as Leopard gecko dust), is designed to balance with the vitamin and mineral contents of insect food to make this all you need. I have several generations of over 50 species of geckos to prove it. MBD is has dissappeared iin my collection, production is high, and the only gecko that has a problem, and this was one specimen, was a P.standingi female. Their eggs are like boulders, and I suspect it was another issue, stress from cagemates, that caused her to decline and develop MBD. My bad.

Much more info on supplementation here and how he designed Calcium Plus:

http://www.forums.repashy.com/showthread.php?t=8941&highlight=supplementation

 

[liljenn]

Great Article!

Julie, that is a terrific article! :main_thumbsup: :main_thumbsup: Finally someone who understands supplements! I used to work for a natural pharmacy & studied under a nutritionist. I learned alot about supplements & I am amazed at how much false information is out! (I think the drug companies want it that way -- but that is another soap box :main_rolleyes: )

Anyway, I have been using Repashy's supplement for the past month & have noticed my leos seem to be more attracted to the mealies with it than the Rep-Cal brand that I used to use.

Thanks for the great info!

 

[Gecko Ranch]

Julie, that is a terrific article! :main_thumbsup: :main_thumbsup: Finally someone who understands supplements! I used to work for a natural pharmacy & studied under a nutritionist. I learned alot about supplements & I am amazed at how much false information is out! (I think the drug companies want it that way -- but that is another soap box :main_rolleyes: )

Anyway, I have been using Repashy's supplement for the past month & have noticed my leos seem to be more attracted to the mealies with it than the Rep-Cal brand that I used to use.

Thanks for the great info!

Jenn, thanks for the positive feedback. That is a huge compliment from someone with your training. I'll pass it on to Allen. Look for more of his tech articles on my website. He has been busy writing lately as well as researching.

I remember when I first discovered the attraction of leopards to the supplement, had to see it a number of times before I brought it up with Allen so I could be sure it was a real phenomemon and not something I was imagining - finally I said something about it and he gave a knowing laugh!

 

[liljenn]

I look forward to reading more of his research -- thanks for the link to his forum, I am now a member there too :main_thumbsup:

 

[GeckoGathering]

All Forms Of Calcium

Allen Repashy.His all in one supplement, Calcium Plus (also sold through T-Rex as Leopard gecko dust)

Isn't it common to try to promote ones own product and in a manner to capture the market from other manufacture's customers, beside new business? Nice promotional article, thanks. But from reading and hearing all supplement and trace mineral product claims, I tend to feel they are all very similar. Many tests are also done by persons with interest in the product in a manner to top the chart.. As the gecko population grows, so does the demand for gecko people's business.
Take care. / HJ

 

[Gecko Ranch]

Isn't it common to try to promote ones own product and in a manner to capture the market from other manufacture's customers, beside new business? Nice promotional article, thanks. But from reading and hearing all supplement and trace mineral product claims, I tend to feel they are all very similar. Many tests are also done by persons with interest in the product in a manner to top the chart.. As the gecko population grows, so does the demand for gecko people's business.
Take care. / HJ

With the tone of implied nepotism, favoritism and just plain greed in your comments, I had to think long and hard about my response to your post here. I could, however, see how you could arrive at that conclusion, putting the merit of this product aside completely for now. Addressing that concern alone, you can rest assured I would never recommend anything I did not believe was the best product for the application. In my mission statement on my website I "freely share any information obtained." That is also the purpose of these forums, for us all to share and discuss. That's what I am doing here, sharing what I have learned in 25+ years of working with lizards.

Going back to the specific merits of Calcium Plus/T-Rex product, I have not found any supplements on the market that are as good for geckos. Most products I have come across as supplements do not have the specific Calcium to Phosphorus or vitamin A and D3 ratios that geckos need. Many of these products are remnants of bird supplements which are grossly out of proportion in the vitamin A dept (overdose). Others require mixing as their ingredients are not as high quality as Calcium Plus and they degrade.

Allen uses human grade quality ingredients for Calcium Plus, not some junk from China. He also addresses more than just the basics I have mentioned above. He has ingredients that enhance gecko coloration for instance. I've had folks tell me my geckos (leopards, Phelsuma) have gotten duller in coloration about 3 weeks after they got them. In each instance they had provided proper food but did not continue to use Calcium Plus like I did with these geckos.

The bottom line is the quality of offspring and health of the females breeding season after breeding season. This is where Calcium Plus shines.

Please post the ingredients of the supplements you have found and we can discuss their merits/lack of merits!

 

[GeckoGathering]

Calcium Plus

With the tone of implied nepotism

First off, my post was directed toward the product and the creator of both the product and the promotional article for it. Not toward you at all.I have never used the calcium plus, so I have no reason to doubt your satisfaction with it. After 25 years with reptiles I feel you have had time to reach many opinions, on what's good and what's not for both you and your reptiles.
I feel the last post of yours directed toward me, telling of your satisfaction most of 25 years, with his product, did the product more good than his article about his own product. You asked what I use:
I'm a believer in using people foods,
My main gut load consists of :
Layer Hen Crumbles(Farm Stores)....to which I add
dry milk,sunflower seeds,carrots.wheat germ,unsalted nuts,coconut,brewer's yeast,citrus skins,Bee pollen,Spirulina flakes,dried greens, kitten food.

I keep a 32% calcium,16% phosphorus supplement powder with Vit. A and D3
with the geckos all the time........
I feed only meal worms and wax worms.
Sorry for any mix up with a choice of words. Take care. / HJ

 

[Gecko Ranch]

HJ, Sorry I took so long to reply. Thank you for giving respect to my experience with lizards. I think I have more like 40 years as I was six when I started keeping them! :main_laugh: I collected every book and paper I could get my hands on about lizards, and then on geckos when I was introduced to them in the 1980s. When folks ask me how I got to where I am, dedicating my professional life to geckos, I tell them about my early adventures and how they seemed to always continue along the gecko path.

Back to the meat here, the supplementation. :robin:

Allen Repashy is also into "people foods," using only human grade ingredients. Chicken food is not that lucky, and there is a big knock on Layena, which I also used to use. I'll find out what that knock was for you. My knock was moths, you had to bake the stuff for 20 minutes unless you like moths in your home. Ugh! Susan Donoghue's (herp nutritionist, DVM) gut load. I think I cried when I could no longer could get her supplements and foods! I was so pleased when Allen took up what she was doing (she gave him the thumbs up BTW). His gut load is great, it is called Insect Gutload (fancy name!). :main_rolleyes:

Back to your supplement, I see it has quite a bit more phosphorus than the generally recommended 2:1. The way Allen R. does it is he takes in to account what insect food already has and "balances" the ratios. Allen has 14-16% Calcium and .1% phosphorus which works out to 2:1 taking into account the what calcium and phosphorus a cricket already has. I like how he took some crickets, let them walk around for five minutes, then figured out how much calcium stuck to them. This is a big deal, not only because he arrives at the correct ratio, most supplementation products I have used do not "stick" worth a darn regardless! His does.

Then there's the vitamin A content, which you did not post. This is critical as I have learned from my teachings from the late Sean McKeown who was a zoo curator and world class reptile guy. If you are lucky enough to own one of the earlier versions of his Day Gecko book published by AVS, there is a handy chart in there that outlines the different critical contents of the different supplements that were available back when it was published in the early '90s. Somehow this chart was not available in later versions of the book, I suspect some vitamin supplement guys got annoyed with Sean's findings comparing them all.:argue: What Sean showed was most supplements were based on the knowledge of the time, that being bird supplements that were screamingly high in Vitamin A content. This causes MBD, particularly decalcification of the skeleton. I still see this today when I check out other supplements.

If just one of the critical vitamins and minerals, Ca, phosphorus, vitamin D3 and vitamin A are out of whack the result is like dominoes, one will knock over the other and the gecko is in MBD.

One last point, that is, folks in general do not really think supplementation is important for geckos. If they do think it is important they pick any supplement thinking they are all equal. They are not. Having the extremely diverse collection of geckos I have and seeing how these different supplements have worked over the years, I think Allen R. really has something heads above everything else out there.

A little more on the subject here:

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?p=208922#post208922