Cash For Clunkers....

Ehatcher

New Member
Messages
898
Location
Maryville, TN
I wish I was able to curse in this thread. Not only is this the stupidest idea I have ever heard in my life... look at what they do to these PERFECTLY good running vehicles. Some of these vehicles were getting 20-22 mpg. It could be better, but thats not TERRIBLE. Oh, "it will save the environment" MY ASS!!! what about all the smoke and contaminants from the burning metals inside the engine block when you fill the engine with a salt/water/silica mix.
This is just another government scam.

Look at this clunker... :main_rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBilHH5z2A

or this 2001 blazer... what a clunker :main_rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOEqJIGnXRw&feature=related

such a piece of crap :main_rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LidmCvdUMeg&feature=related

uhhh... what a nice Volvo.. Such a shame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo&feature=related

some lovely quotes from some of the videos:

"""Just to give Europeans an idea of how stupid the government is, they are paying people to destroy cars to encourage them to buy a new one.
I'm waiting for them to start burning houses down to fix the housing market."""

"""USA, the society with the most obese people in the world, what you could expect more of peolpe eating themself death. Destroying good material is good for their economy......"""

"""Way to go, take the gas guzzlers off the road and save the environment, by creating trash and junk of a perfectly good running vehicle, then build another using more resources to build it. Then adding more carbon and contaminents to the air while shipping, creating more material, using the heavy equipment to mine the resourses to make the material... genius"""

"""This is a criminal waste of decent cars and BILLIONS of tax dollars... borrowed from our grandchildren.

Why not help kids starting out get a decent used car??? (Instead of driving up used car prices by destroying hundreds of thousands of useful vehicles?)

Only the liberal Democrats and Obama could invent, and make US pay for, something this stupid!!!"""



One more point: WHY have the environmentalist nut jobs suddenly forgotten about RECYCLING the old car and giving it to a family in need???

Good idea Obama and friends... :main_thumbsdown:
 
Last edited:

sunshinegeckofarm

Obsessed with Leos
Messages
957
Location
New Port Richey/Hudson, FL
I completely agree thats its a really stupid idea unless you have a car thats not very reliable and its costing you more to fix it than it is to get another car then this is a great idea for those people but if your car is fine and runs fine then whats the point its just a waste of money and a car that can be donated to those in need. I dont see why not just try to help those with failing mortgages due to unemployment from being laid off or fired because there positions or the company itself went bye bye. Also help those that need food to feed their families and help people get good healthcare. Americans have been suffering too many years now due to poor government choices its really time to step it up and start helping this country the right way and not the wrong way. i am a democrat but this dude aint cutting it on helping this country fix itself.
 

BlackDiamondGeckos

New Member
Messages
623
Location
Berkeley, CA
I wish I was able to curse in this thread. Not only is this the stupidest idea I have ever heard in my life... look at what they do to these PERFECTLY good running vehicles. Some of these vehicles were getting 20-22 mpg. It could be better, but thats not TERRIBLE. Oh, "it will save the environment" MY ASS!!! what about all the smoke and contaminants from the burning metals inside the engine block when you fill the engine with a salt/water/silica mix.
This is just another government scam.

Why not help kids starting out get a decent used car??? (Instead of driving up used car prices by destroying hundreds of thousands of useful vehicles?)

Only the liberal Democrats and Obama could invent, and make US pay for, something this stupid!!!"""

One more point: WHY have the environmentalist nut jobs suddenly forgotten about RECYCLING the old car and giving it to a family in need???

Good idea Obama and friends... :main_thumbsdown:

I completely agree thats its a really stupid idea unless you have a car thats not very reliable and its costing you more to fix it than it is to get another car then this is a great idea for those people but if your car is fine and runs fine then whats the point its just a waste of money and a car that can be donated to those in need. I dont see why not just try to help those with failing mortgages due to unemployment from being laid off or fired because there positions or the company itself went bye bye. Also help those that need food to feed their families and help people get good healthcare. Americans have been suffering too many years now due to poor government choices its really time to step it up and start helping this country the right way and not the wrong way. i am a democrat but this dude aint cutting it on helping this country fix itself.

First off have you guys read the requirements?

* Your vehicle must be less than 25 years old on the trade-in date
* Only purchase or lease of new vehicles qualify
* Generally, trade-in vehicles must get 18 or less MPG (some very large pick-up trucks and cargo vans have different requirements)
* Trade-in vehicles must be registered and insured continuously for the full year preceding the trade-in
* You don't need a voucher, dealers will apply a credit at purchase
* Program runs through Nov 1, 2009 or when the funds are exhausted, whichever comes first.
* The program requires the scrapping of your eligible trade-in vehicle, and that the dealer disclose to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in. The scrap value, however minimal, will be in addition to the rebate, and not in place of the rebate.

So none of the cars being traded in could have been getting 20-22 MPG (or should be). That's what the requirement says. And come on- how does burning the Clunker Mix for 30 seconds going to be worse than running that car everyday for the rest of its life- let’s be realistic here…

And there are requirements for the new cars being bought too:

*The new vehicle must have a manufacturer's suggested retail price of not more than $45,000. That price appears on the window sticker on new vehicles. The new vehicle must also achieve minimum combined fuel economy levels. For passenger automobiles, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 22 miles per gallon. For category 1 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 18 miles per gallon. For category 2 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 15 miles per gallon. Category 3 trucks have no minimum fuel economy requirement; however, there are special requirements that apply to the purchase of category 3 vehicles.

So you can’t just go and splurge on a Maserati or a Lambo. This program was designed for the average Joe.

Second off, where are your numbers coming from? Who says the used car prices are going up? There are so many used cars that this minimal change in supply isn't necessarily going to drive the curve down and make prices higher. EVEN IF the prices are going what's the big deal? That's perfect- less cars with bad emissions on the road.

Let’s think about this. Say the prices are going up and what about poor old Joe that can't afford a new car? You know the range in used cars? It's huge- cars will range from $500 to obviously 10s of thousands of dollars. If Joe really needs a car for work he can buy a $500 car. If the prices go up and the car now costs $600 I'm pretty sure he can still afford it. Or he's going to have to lower his standards and buy something he CAN afford.

Now let’s talk about the car sales- It's pretty much easier to buy a new car than an old one. With all the rebates and low interest and cash bonuses it is now cheaper to buy new than old. Car sales are finally going up again. We need this to get the economy going. We need people to spend money and get money pumped back into the market. This will help us come out of the slump we’re in. We need to spend money to get money. This increase in sales will allow the car companies to grow and allow them to rehire the people they laid off. We can't just hand out more unemployment checks to the unemployed- we need to give them their jobs back.

This is actually a pretty good thing. You get 3500-4500 depending on the car, plus the scrap value. So it's like you're selling your car and buying a new better one. The government is getting our tax dollars and pumping it back in in return for our old cars. I see no problem with this. Government pumping money into the market is a great thing.

Lastly the car IS being recycled- the car still has parts value. These will probably not be thrown out and canned- there are goin to metal recycling and parts recycling centers. And now a days people are actually going to chop shops and car graveyards and fixing their own cars instead of buying new parts from manufacturers. The extra supply in these ‘parts cars’ is going to make parts cheaper for people too. Had you guys thought about that? These cars aren’t going to be junked.

I personally do not agree with you, but I look at numbers and economic principles before saying stuff. The way this is working the PROS outweigh the CONS. Never is everyone going to be pleased, but this is an overall good thing. And lastly how is this a scam? The government is GIVING you money, it's your choice to trade in. If you think your car is worth more than that- then great. just keep it...
 

ajveachster

New Member
Messages
1,185
Location
NE Ohio
I think some of the rules suck. Ryan's car is a clunker. In fact it is parked at a gas station right now because it won't run, and he had to miss work today. It doesn't qualify because it gets 24 mpg. So something that has to be towed to a junk yard won't count, but other better vehicles do. Oh well.
 

BlackDiamondGeckos

New Member
Messages
623
Location
Berkeley, CA
I think some of the rules suck. Ryan's car is a clunker. In fact it is parked at a gas station right now because it won't run, and he had to miss work today. It doesn't qualify because it gets 24 mpg. So something that has to be towed to a junk yard won't count, but other better vehicles do. Oh well.

Well if you can fix it for it for less than the trade in value and just drive it into the lot then you're good. It doesn't have to run perfectly- just tow it across the street and drive it in... lol. I know someone in my class that did that.
 

ajveachster

New Member
Messages
1,185
Location
NE Ohio
Unfortunately it still wouldn't qualify because it gets too good of gas milage. That's the irony of the situation.
 

BlackDiamondGeckos

New Member
Messages
623
Location
Berkeley, CA
Ya, they want running cars with bad emissions. No point in getting a car traded in that's getting better than the minimum MPG that they're handing out you know? And they don't want cars that don't run either, because they're not trying to get rid of all clunkers- just the low MPG running clunkers- the ones that are contributing to the current pollution. I'm sorry though...
 

gaparicio

Let's Go Bears!
Messages
617
Location
Chicago
I have a 99 Ford Explorer AWD with a V8 engine. My truck happens to be #4 on the list as the most popular "clunker" that's been traded in. I'd love to keep her since I have no problems with the drivetrain but everything else is going bad. Suspension, RUST, broken locks, need new tires, etc. I'm probably going to trade it in for a Nissan Versa Hatchback. I almost have no choice...too expensive to maintain the old girl.:(
 

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
This is being done on the TAXPAYER'S dollar.

My local city's schools cannot pass federal requirement educational standards, yet my tax money is going to "encourage" people to trade-in (sometimes) perfectly FINE vehicles to be junked and CUBED in junkyards (at least according to our news).

And why? For people to get a car that uses less gas???
If people want to pay more for gas, FINE. Let them.

Why not try lowering the prices on some of these so-called "environmentally-friendly" vehicles instead of holding out your hand to the taxpayer to fund this program??
 

BlackDiamondGeckos

New Member
Messages
623
Location
Berkeley, CA
I understand what you are saying, but what the government is trying to do is jump start the economy. Believe me, I'm with you on educational funds- I go to UC Berkeley- our tuition has gone up a lot because of the deficit we're in- not just the federal deficit, but also our state deficit. So I'm with you, I agree. But the government is working towards the 'greater good'- and the best way with the way things are going is to pump back money into the market in terms of consumption, not investment. Since the money is lacking the worst thing to do is invest- if people keep money to themselves then the market will hurt even more.

That's why this is a never ending spiral- you have less money because you take a pay cut or lose your job- so instinct is to save money and not spend it. That in turn causes other companies to go out of business because they're not making the revenue and/or profits they used to make, so they take pay cuts and lay off people and so on and on...

So this may seem to be counterintuitive- to just give away government money- our tax dollars- but that's the best way to get the economy going again- and once that does happen then the government can give back the funds that are being taken away from the education sector.

But this is an ongoing debate in politics and economics- what the best thing to do is. There is no 'right' answer. If something doesn't work you try something else. It's not a physical science where things are black and white, right and wrong- it's a social science, and no one can know for sure how people will respond. Given the same situation there will be many responses and many reactions. This is just our first step, our first solution- and I'm just hoping that it works...
 
Last edited:

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
oooh, I am TOO Orwellian in thought and belief to even THINK the government is working towards "the greater good" of anything but for themselves.
Government, by definition, expands. This was even recognized by our founding fathers.

I admire you, though.
Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic.
 

Retribution Reptiles

Stripe King
Messages
2,380
Location
NE Ohio
ok let's try to help the economy by taking cars that still run into a company and use CREDIT to give cars to people....how about you put that 4500 in my next tax return. i bet you my brand new car people could use that instaed of a new car
 

nrich

Member
Messages
168
Location
Pasadena, CA
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the cash for clunkers program being completely funded by the current stimulus package? Wasn't the idea behind the package to....oh, I don't know....stimulate the economy by injecting money back into it and creating consumer confidence? That is exactly what the cash for clunkers program is doing.
 

BlackDiamondGeckos

New Member
Messages
623
Location
Berkeley, CA
I thought this was kinda kool from the LA Times:

The average fuel economy of the vehicles traded in was 15.8 miles per gallon, and that of the new vehicles purchased was 25.4 mpg. The nearly 10-mpg average increase is much higher than the program's minimum requirement...

But as far as funding goes- whether you want to call it government money, tax dollars, or stimulus- where does it all come from? The same place. It's our money at work.
 

sunshinegeckofarm

Obsessed with Leos
Messages
957
Location
New Port Richey/Hudson, FL
The whole thing is if some of the cars are still running well I think they should be given to those in need to get around and maybe get a job if they can find one in this day & age. The ones not working great if its not a easy fix then should be used a scrap vehicles in junkyards where average persons and pick out parts they need to fix their cars. Government needs to look at other ways to helping this country than just trying to save people on gas there is many that have no money for food and are losing their homes. I think we need to help all because for a while now its just been getting worse and it needs to look up soon. At least i hope it will look up soon
 

Sunrise Reptile

SunriseReptile.com
Messages
3,520
Location
New Haven, IN
Eric, I wish you'd have given about 15 seconds thought to the poor folks on the assembly lines that fear every waking day, wondering if it's the day in which they're told they no longer have a job.

Having the first hand experience of losing a job after working for a company that files for bankruptcy protection because they made financially unsound decissions, I can tell you one thing with 100% certainty. I wouldn't trade places with any one of those folks. :main_no:

So I think anything we can do to help the poor folks stuck in this situation is a good thing. After all, where do you think our country would be without them?
 

Ehatcher

New Member
Messages
898
Location
Maryville, TN
Yes I have put more than 15 seconds of thought into the auto crisis up there. Half of my familly lives in Detroit and a few of them have been laid off. My uncle's father is still employed by Ford, But my uncle has been laid off by then, no real chance of being called back, My aunt was laid off by TRW (they make key fobs for you car and other stuff) where she was the marketing manager...she has already moved to TN to pursue other oppurtunities here. GM laid off my Step Grandfathers daughter (My step aunt?) and she is with out a job. So yeah... I am thinking about that...but guess what... in Detroit and Dearborne in GENERAL there are no jobs to be found From. Construction Jobs are basically void there. Their economy is basically halted and Temp Services seem to be the only way you can find work.

Im saying that from all of the nice , newer cars that they are turning in to be basically destroyed, why not get all of the 79-89 model year cars that leave a nice oil burning smoke cloud behind them, get 10 miles to the gallon instead of these new emissioned cars that do not pollute nearly as bad as the TRUE clunkers? I don't know about California, but here in Tennessee they allow some pretty crappy cars that leak, have not CATS or any other emissions crap to run free...
 

Visit our friends

Top