charcoal

[bluevapor]

this one was labled (from charcoal line)

 

[DoubleAGeckos]

Nice gecko I need charcoal line gecko

 

[bluevapor]

has anyone else worked with them?are they ress. or line bred? i sent an email to JMG. but havent gotten anything back yet.

 

[DoubleAGeckos]

Lava leopard gecko did. But I think it's random to be honest slight line breeding but mostly random

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

The Charcoal line is a line bred line that JMG developed. The most dark Charcoals come from the female bator. It is not random as they can produce them at will but it is a very line bred trait

 

[bluevapor]

so it acts like the hypo gene?

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

What do you mean it acts like the Hypo gene?

 

[bluevapor]

is it ressive,co-dom,or like hypo, you can have hypo or super depends on how much parents have.how is it linked? is it random like snake eyes?what do i need to breed her too so i can make more?

 

[lillith]

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/inbreeding.html

Please google "line breeding".

 

[rchase54]

What makes a charcoal? The black dust-like pattern?

 

[lillith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9ucxcQXWk

(straight from the source, not my video)

 

[bluevapor]

i know about line breeding.you can line breed with ress. traits and you can line breed with codom traits.example if i cross albino x normal = normal hets.if i cross snow x normal = snows and normal.if i cross super hypo x normal = some degree of hypo. so my question is if i cross this charcoal with a normal do i get (charcoal and normal)(normal het charcoal) or charcoal influenced babies? maybe someone that is breeding them could ansewer?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Looks like what we used to call a 'dirty tangerine' back in the olden days, but I guess 'charcoal' sounds a lot better. That dark one in the deli cup is pretty cool!

 

[bluevapor]

i would love to see pics of more of them if anyone has any?

 

[lillith]

i know about line breeding.you can line breed with ress. traits and you can line breed with codom traits.example if i cross albino x normal = normal hets.if i cross snow x normal = snows and normal.if i cross super hypo x normal = some degree of hypo. so my question is if i cross this charcoal with a normal do i get (charcoal and normal)(normal het charcoal) or charcoal influenced babies? maybe someone that is breeding them could ansewer?

If this is what you think line breeding is, then you need to reread the article I posted.

There is a difference between linebred, recessive, co-dominant and dominant. They are all modes of inheritance, and they are NOT the same thing. You can linebreed for traits, but those traits are not necessarily recessive (which is where "hets" are involved). You can also outcross unrelated (or more distantly related, anyhow) two individuals with matching recessive genes ("hets") and still get the trait.

What I'm trying to say is,
not all recessives are linebred
not all linebreeding is recessive.

I only mention this because you seem to be confusing the two.
Charcoal is linebred, meaning inbred for coloration generation after generation to achieve the desired color.

That's how we've gotten tangerines so bright. Some folks actually consider the darker tangerines almost a sacrilege since so much work over the past decade has gone into making the brightest eye-popping tangerines that we have now. I consider it an exploration of the palette in another direction.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

VERY well said, Janece!

 

[bluevapor]

simple question if i breed it to a normal what will the babies be?

 

[TokayKeeper]

The long answer.........

The base genetics of the charcoal appears to me to be of the ray hine hypo line... http://www.jmgreptile.com/charcoal.html

This very line is what started the super hypo tangerine carrot-tail and super hypo tangerine carrot-tail baldy morphs.

From JMG's Charcoal Page

She's a darker version of a nice classic, non-carrot-tailed Ray Hine hypo. The trait is assumed co-dominant; the recessive form is normal spotting, the heterozygous form is the above pictured female, and the super form (expressing 2 dominant alleles) is the hypo baldy.

The charcoal in the video appears to be of the super form

Beyond the base genetics is the line breeding for the darkened coloration. As Janece mentioned, "I consider it an exploration of the palette in another direction."

SOOOOOOOOOO....since the Ray Hine line hypo appears to act in co-dominant inheritence, breeding a charcoal to a normal would yield:

100% hypo babies that would potentially express varying degrees of darkened coloration and hypo patterning.

To give you an idea using a hypo tangerine carrot-tail and a normally patterned Rainwater albino, here's what you'd get:

I did this cross in 2002 and 2003
Male Rainwater albino, het for patternless (proved this out this year), otherwise possessing normal spotted patterning.

Ray Hine Line Hypo Tangerine Carrot-Tail

1 of the offspring from 2002

Hatchlings from 2003, a normal and a hypo, both het for rainwater albino

Another hypo hatchling from the cross - hatched July 03

The hypo at month old - August 03

Hypo in Nov 03

 

[bluevapor]

thank you tokaykeeper that is the exact type of answer i was looking for.i didnt know it came from the hypo line, but i did have an idea it would work simaler to how hypo works(line breeding)is it just me or does the shtctb in this post http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=77478 look a little like the charcoal? not so much in her body and head but the mid point in her tail. she has the spots on her throat and came from the same breeder.

 

[lillith]

If you breed it to a normal, you will get some color influence but lose some of the hypo trait in some of the offspring. You would basically be diluting the charcoal color and gaining some spots back. You would then want to take your darkest, hypo-est offspring and either breed back to the charcoal parent, or to each other. Or you can obtain another charcoal somewhere. If you look at JMG's page, they do have several darker tangerines available, but almost all of them are het for Tremper albino (or are possible hets). In my particular dreamed-up project, I really wouldn't want any albino genes. Not at this point, anyhow. Call me picky.

And no, that particular shctb would produce brighter offspring. But you could start with her anyways, and see where it takes you.