Chicawahau :)

[yellermelon]

Heres pics of me and my wifes chihauhau. Her name is Lexus...she is extremelly spoiled. On a side note we need a good dog food....that aids in weight managment..any ideas?

 

[Kimjorg]

Nutro makes tons of good dog foods. I swear by it after the change we have seen in our dogs coat.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Hill's W/D. It's a prescription diet you can get from most vets.

 

[robin]

we feed daisey hills G/D food (prescription formula) because she has a sensitive tummy. great dog food they make. very expensive, however worth it

we feed morgan science diet for senior dogs (we have to watch the soy content in the food as well because it gives her horrible HORRIBLE gas lol), really a very good food as well, not quite as expensive as hills but worth the money.


in the past we used nutros and were happy with the results of that food as well.

 

[StinaKSU]

I had foster on SD oral care...great food. Now I have him on Nutro Natural Choice (I think chicken, rice, and oatmeal or smt...) b/c its less expensive but I know great quality. Honestly I've never noticed any difference in him between different types of food....He was on Purina Beneful when I got him...so I've had him on 3 different foods since I got him. I don't terribly trust Purina though.... As far as diet formulas....honestly the best way to deal with it is just to feed less....the diet formulas tend to be more expensive, with more fillers and thus less nutrition and so basically is a waste of money... foster started gaining weight at one point (he was on ad libidum feeding until he decided to start eating more than he needed)...I just limited his intake and he lost weight. Now he eats the recommended proportions on the bags of food (also note that you feed less of higher quality foods, often leading to better value than "cheaper" food you have to feed more of) and is at his ideal weight.

Avoid feeding table scraps and many treats (and remember to subtract from regular feedings when the dog is given treats). Don't feed more than the recommended feeding amounts on the bag...and you CAN feed less than the recommened feeding amounts on the the bag (though not tooo much less...lol).

 

[yellermelon]

thanks for the replies. Lex has never had a table scrap (hard to believe i know) she was on science diet most of her life. We have since read alot of bad things about this food (i.e. the corn filler) so shes been switched to nutro. she still seems to "require" more than she should to be satisfied. thus she isnt loosing any chub. she excercises..and all that (sort of) Marcia, I had read that hills is made by science diet and was told to stear clear of that one also...

 

[StinaKSU]

The brand is Science Diet...the manufacturer is Hill's. Personally I believe they make perfectly healthy food for most dogs. Their prescription diets are among very very few options for such diets available. I think a lot of the food "trends" going on right now...avoiding by-products for example...are pretty silly........there's nothing wrong with by-products (maybe poultry by-products wouldn't be a bad thing to avoid...they do include heads and feet...but mammalian)....by-products are the internal organs of the animals...and legally hooves, teeth, and intestinal contents can NOT be included....which means by-products are made of some really healthy stuff for dogs. I just dont' understand where such trends get started...

Anyway...as far as her seeming to "require" more than she should to be satisfied.........dogs are opportunistic and very few dogs actually act satisfied when they're fed proper amounts...they naturally want to eat as much as they possibly can at mealtime...especially when they are fed meals and not ad libidum. For example with Foster....when I first got him I fed him ad libidum and he only ate what he should have and stayed at his ideal weight...until he decided his food wasn't fresh enough later in the day and would eat less then and started to eat more when fresh food was put in his bowl...and he started gaining weight....So I put him on "meals"......since then, if I was to give him as much as he could eat in one sitting.....he would engorge himself and rapidly gain weight. It has nothing to do with the food itself (All that happened while he was still on Beneful)....its just natural for them to want to eat as much as they can when they're fed meals. If you are feeding her more than the bag recommends, definitely decrease the amount she's given if not less...If you're giving her the recommended levels then probably drop them to below the recommended maintenance levels (I forget if Nutro puts weight loss levels on there)...I wouldn't do it all at once though...drop the levels over a week or two to get her used to it.....and don't let her lose weight too quickly. But yeah....I think its better to feed less of a "normal" food than to feed the same amount or more of a "diet" food that's basically a lower nutrition food with more fillers that costs more b/c they call it diet.

 

[moosassah]

She sure is cute. Maybe she's just "big boned"

 

[Cheaton]

Guys, if you look around you'll find that Science Diet and Iams are two of the worst dog foods on the market. Dogs with sensitive tummies are usually that way because of allergies related to corn or wheat flour found in most commercial dog foods. Including the Hill's and Iams stuff. If your vet reccomends it it's probably because he was put through vet school on a scholarship from Hill's. Their food is terrible and you may as well feed them something like alpo or purina. It's the same junk and alot cheaper. These people at Hill's get their "vet reccomendations" by paying for them. Vets have this stuff in their offices because they get kick backs for selling it. "Science Diet" is a clever marketing ploy to get you, the consumer, to pay more for the same crap. If you would like some idea about what makes a good dog food, and what's junk visit http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/ . If you're concerned about the cost of the food, then break it down based on how much you're feeding and realize even the more expensive, truely nutritional, foods are only costing you 30-65 cents a day. Is your dog worth $.65 a day to be healthy and happy and free from diarreah and vomit? Mine is! I will do anything in my power to spread the word and get people to stop buying this terrible food and feeding it to their precious dogs under the guise of "science". If I wouldn't get arrested I'd go into my local petco's and petsmarts with a knife and rip open these bags so they couldn't sell them. Don't blindly trust your vet. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Educate yourself and understand what you're really feeding your pet based on the ingredient list. If the word "corn" appears on the label, or "enriched wheat" you're asking for digestive trouble with your dog.

It's true, your dog will probably live to it's fullest lifespan feeding it this kinda junk. But I'm positive my dog will feel better, be more active, and have less health problems than your dog will. You guys are so very concerned with what you feed your geckos and the nutrition content of the insects they eat. You know that waxworms are bad, phoenix worms are good, and crix are high in phosphorus. You know that variety in the diet of your gecko (and yourself) is good! Put the same amount of care and research into your dog food... please! Neither your or your dog will regret it!

P.S. Even the Science Diet prescription stuff is the same junk, just smellier.

 

[Cheaton]

And Stina. You're assumptions about what are bi products are incorrect. Most "organ meat" is available for human consumption. Beef hearts, chicken hearts, livers, kidneys, etc you can find in your grocery store labeled as "giblets" or laid out in your meat cooler. By products are the feet of the chickens, the cartiledge, things that are not fit for human consumption. I agree they may not be terrible for your dog, but get your facts straight. The reason these trends start is usually because people realize that they're not doing the right things. And that companies are taking them for a ride by selling crap to feed their animals with. This is not really a "trend" this is people scientifically (truely scientifically, not hill's scientifically) figuring out what their animals need to be properly fed. Look at your bag or can of science diet and tell me what the second and third ingredients are.

Chicken, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Corn Gluten Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), DL-Methionine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Corn and grains in general are not good for your dogs. They cause digestive and allergy problems. In hills science diet corn is 2 of the top 4 ingredients (by weight). The reason they add all of those "supplements" at the end is because the first ingredients of the food are basically junk (except the chicken, which really shouldn't be first on the list. By the time they remove the water from the food during extrusion it's the corn that takes top billing). You want to feed your dog this muck it's your choice. But you're not doing it any favors.

Look at Beneful... Even worse.

Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, sugar, sorbitol, tricalcium phosphate, water, salt, phosphoric acid, animal digest, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, sorbic acid (a preservative), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dried peas, dried carrots, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, added color (Yellow 5, Red 40, Yellow 6, Blue 2), DL-Methionine, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin B-12 supplement, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, copper sulfate, biotin, garlic oil, thiamine hydrochloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.

3 of the first four ingredients are wheat and corn (wheat is also been shown to cause major allergies and digestive issues). In fact the only "meat" in it is Chicken bi-product meal which is basically ground up chicken feet. This look like a diet for a carnivore? Doesn't to me! Your dogs are getting fat because they're eating toom any carbs and not enough protein. They're having sensitive tummies because they're eating things they aren't meant to eat. If need be I'll be glad to put together a list of citations from vets and labs to back up my accusations.

 

[StinaKSU]

You are aware that dogs are naturally omnivorous and are not carnivores right?.......corn and grains are not inherently bad for dogs...perhaps not the best things for them, but far from terrible. Unless they do have an allergy, in which case what they are allergic to should be avoided. I could find references myself...there is so much debate over that stuff that you could talk to a hundred different vets/nutritionists and get 100 different opinions on what dogs or cats should or shouldn't have in their diets.

btw....AAFCO's definition of by-products....
"The non-rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hoofs. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."

It may not be limited to organs...but that's a large part of it and nothing makes it bad for anything its fed to......there's nothing unhealthy about it. There is nothing based on science to justify avoiding it...

NOTHING eats straight meat as their entire diet.........even a true carnivore's diet consists of the ENTIRE prey animal....except often for some bone...which means they eat the feet, the cartiledge, the internal organs....most will even eat the intestines with the intestinal contents. Eating the entire prey animal is vital to survival since meat alone doesn't have all the nutrients required by the predator.....

No food has one or two ingredients...and pretty much all foods...including the "6 star" ones listed on that site you linked have added vitamins and minerals and other supplements....its not b/c "the first ingredients of the food are basically junk" ...its b/c its nearly impossible to formulate a diet with limited ingredients that includes all necessary nutrients.

Also, like I said, my dog isn't eating Beneful anymore....hasn't been for quite some time......I was, and am, aware that it is not a very high quality diet.....but again, I have noticed no difference whatsoever in his health, activity, or appearance between any of the 3 brands of food I have used. Different dogs react to different foods and different ingredients differently. My family had a golden retriever that lived to 15 on Purina her whole life...she never had any health issues till towards the end...she had a couple urinary tract infections her last year or two...had a tumor removed from a foreleg at about 10 I believe...but she was overall healthy until the last few weeks before she was euthanized and the vet discovered a mass in her abdomen. 15 is great for a golden and they don't get to that age on a horribly bad diet that no dog should eat... ...and no, I am not a big fan of Purina...but it worked for cassie.

 

[yellermelon]

Hey you guys lets not argue were all on the same team here! Ok look what you did you guys turned ME into the freakin hippie, I hope Paulnj doesnt see this Ive been making fun of him for months lol.

 

[Cheaton]

Stina, I am fully aware dogs are not completely carnivorous. But, the only real eating of vegitation would come from the stomach contents of whatever they would kill and eat. A ratio of at least 50/50 meat to vegies is acceptable and 70/30 even better. Most of the commercial dog foods (including Hill's) are nowhere close to this. Through my research, I've concluded dogs do not really digest grains the way you and I do. They don't get the proteins from them or other nutrients. They provide very little in the way of nutritional value. They're mainly a source of fiber. They don't need much. The intestines of a dog are 1/3-1/2 the length in comparison of a true omnivore like a human. This is a biological trait of a carnivore. Fats and meats are readily absorbed, but the digestive tract is too short to absorb the nutrition from the grains. Our longer digestive track gives us the ability to break down these things into nutrients more efficiently.

Noone is arguing that commercial dogfood can't be a staple, and adequate diet for dogs. But, they are certainly nowhere close to ideal. However there are companies who have realized the deficiency in popular dogfood brands and they are producing much higher quality food. My dog and your dog may both live to be 15 years old. But I'd put it to you my dog will have more energy, be healthier, happier, and have a greater CHANCE at avoiding later life health issues.

As far as the vitamin and minerals added, yes even the top foods have this. Mainly because alot of these things are destroyed by the heat of the cooking and extrusion process to make the pellets. They must add supplements to compensate. Even home cooked pet diets, which is what we do now with our dog, require some supplementation due to the cooking process. I personally feel that you can do much better this way, or feeding raw, than any kibble. But if you must feed kibble at least give them something more worthy of their consumption.

 

[StinaKSU]

well we are both entitled to our own opinions


Just one note though....yes, dogs do digest grains differently than us....but the grain in dog food isn't the same thing as a dog eating straight grain out of a field....the extrusion process of making dog food alters the digestibility making it MUCH easier for dogs to digest.

 

[Cheaton]

Just one note though....yes, dogs do digest grains differently than us....but the grain in dog food isn't the same thing as a dog eating straight grain out of a field....the extrusion process of making dog food alters the digestibility making it MUCH easier for dogs to digest.[/QUOTE]


as well as remove most of whatever nutrients there were, and it doesn't change the fact that most dogs can and/or will develop allergies to these ingredients. Most of the grain they would eat in the wild would typically be mostly digested, and this doesn't change the fact that they dont really get anything from it other than smoother bowel movements. So feeding your dog something that's mostly grain really isn't ideal for their health and well being. Is it "Adequate" yes it probably is. But personally, "adequate" isn't good enough for my precious pets.

 

[StinaKSU]

dogs, like people and any other animal, can develop allergies to any protein...be it meat or grain. They may be more likely to develop allergies to grain...but that doesn't mean they can't eat it. If they develop and allergy...obviously you want to stop feeding it...but most dogs DON'T develop allergies. Just b/c some do, doesn't mean they all will and none should eat it. Many dogs develop allergies to different types of meat.....doesn't mean we shouldn't feed them beef.

I am not telling you that you are feeding your dog a bad diet....you are basically telling me that I am...and I disagree. I've done my own research and had my own education and can make the decision myself...I do not need you to tell me that I am wrong when nutritionists and vets can't even agree. You are entitled to your opinion, I to mine.

 

[gaparicio]

By products are the feet of the chickens, the cartiledge, things that are not fit for human consumption.

I LOVE chicken feet soup!:main_thumbsup: I used to eat this stuff when I went vacationing in Mexico.