Curly Tail Leopard Geckos

[SC Geckos]

I have been seeing a lot of these "Curly Tail" leopard geckos in the past couple weeks and want to start a discussion on the topic. I would like to hear peoples views (for or against) trying to produce more of these animals.

 

[Matthew David]

David's Fine Geckos is testing these at the moment, they look to be kicking up quite a storm if you're a member of the gecko blog you'll have seen his posts today.

 

[LepoInc]

I would say that if it doesn't harm the gecko and people don't cross curly to straight, I'm fine with it

Sent via Tapatalk whilst caring for Eublepharis macularis'

 

[indyana]

I remember reading some discussion threads on this before. Here are the links, in case you'd like to see what's been discussed in the past...
http://geckoforums.net/f125-morphs-genetics/43198.htm
http://geckoforums.net/f125-morphs-genetics/70867.htm

Personally, unless the trait is proven to have detrimental effects on gecko health, I believe it should be treated like any other trait. If people want to breed for it and test it out, more power to them.

 

[stager]

I would consider it more of a birth defect than a trait I am personally against it. But to each his own.

 

[Matthew David]

It's only a defect if it's defective ... This has been demonstrated to not be at all defective so that it isn't

 

[stager]

To each his own I will just never see the point in something like this, or support it in any way. I would also like to hear what some breeders here feel about this also. I've seen similar results from temp spikes in incubators.

 

[Savvy Geckos]

To each his own I will just never see the point in something like this, or support it in any way. I would also like to hear what some breeders here feel about this also. I've seen similar results from temp spikes in incubators.

I think the curly tail is genetic is it not? it wouldnt be the same thing as a gecko being affected by environmental reasons. Temp spiked geckos that have similar results would not reproduce different tails, but genetic ones will. I'n my opinion that makes a huge difference in whether or not to breed an animal. From what i've seen from David he says it doesn't interfere in their lives at all so it seems it's a pretty cool trait. Maybe non-desired by most but still kinda cool, no harm can really come by breeding them.

 

[stager]

Is he a vet? It is a spine deformity no? I don't know enough about the gecko autonomy to say for sure but I don't see how a crooked spine woundn't cause some sort of discomfort.

 

[Savvy Geckos]

Is he a vet? It is a spine deformity no? I don't know enough about the gecko autonomy to say for sure but I don't see how a crooked spine woundn't cause some sort of discomfort.

I haven't really thought of it like that it's a very valid point. I agree it's hard to tell weather there is some discomfort or not, i guess he is just going by their behavior. One other issue too i think is later on in life, he probably doesn't have any curly tail geckos over 2 years and it could shorten the life span which means it is a hindrance on the animal.

 

[stager]

I'm not trying to flame at this guy, much worse has been done in dog breeding. I just think it looks painful, maybe because I've had back surgery. But again I don't know muck about gecko anatomy. I would love to her a vet's opinion on this.

 

[acpart]

I foresee a Gecko Time Prose and Controversies installment on this topic in the not too distant future . . .

Aliza

 

[Savvy Geckos]

I'm not trying to flame at this guy, much worse has been done in dog breeding. I just think it looks painful, maybe because I've had back surgery. But again I don't know muck about gecko anatomy. I would love to her a vet's opinion on this.

I'm not here to flame either, just discussing everyone's views. I love seeing other opinion on things that i don't see. I totally agree with a vet's opinion, even someone with more knowledge of gecko anatomy and what discomforts them (which is usually a vet lol). Not apart of this topic but i love the geckos you have hatched out, particularly the W/Y's, i love working with that gene!

 

[Matthew David]

So if this is indeed causing no harm to the gecko, doesn't produce any ill effects what so ever and even a vet deems it safe and perfectly acceptable on the basis no gecko is harmed by it and it's just a trait ... The very same could be said for all things line bred btw then all your shouting above one another and your looking down at the person who made this thread etc and your pompous comments holier than though oh it's wrong blab will be be wasted because you'll he wrong ... And then what ?

 

[Matthew David]

This is being actively discussed over on The Gecko Blog ok Facebook and so far the findings show no harm, pain or ill effects and yes they're being bred for this trait now

 

[SC Geckos]

Well Matt, I would not go as far as saying

the findings show no harm, pain or ill effects

It is extremely hard to determine weather a reptile is in any discomfort. No licensed vets have done any studies on this that I am aware of (I really don't think they ever will) It does seem to be a twisting of the spine and I can't see how that can be good. (but I am no vet by any stretch)

My take on this subject is I personally don't like this tail curl deformity/trait (what ever people would like to call it) I don't condemn anyone that is pursuing it... Its just not my cup of tea.

Some of my concerns with this becoming widely accepted is where will the line be drawn from here when it comes to physical deformities? Will it be, as long as the animal can live a "normal life" and people like the way the deformity looks then it's alright to try and produce more of? Now I know people will say changing the animals colors is also a type of deformity, and I agree but those are not physical anatomy deformations, just colors and pattern mutations.

I have seen dozens of threads, posts, and general comments in the past of people that have animals with kinked tails, stub tails, bulging eyes, over and under bites, etc... being told by many people (including larger, experienced breeders) that these animals should never be bred and many have used the term "unethical" It can be seen even in the previous posts on this topic. Now all of a sudden it is becoming accepted??? Where will the line be drawn... if at all?

Again, I will say I am not trying to talk down or bad about anyone nor do I want anyone to be offended by my views on the subject. I am just trying to have a respectful discussion/debate on the topic.

 

[stager]

So if this is indeed causing no harm to the gecko, doesn't produce any ill effects what so ever and even a vet deems it safe and perfectly acceptable on the basis no gecko is harmed by it and it's just a trait ... The very same could be said for all things line bred btw then all your shouting above one another and your looking down at the person who made this thread etc and your pompous comments holier than though oh it's wrong blab will be be wasted because you'll he wrong ... And then what ?

Who here is shouting? We are giving are opinions like we were asked.