Designer Geckos experiment: shipping in warm weather

Designer Geckos

Contributor
Messages
967
Location
Boulder, CO
Designer Geckos - Experiment re: shipping in warm weather

First off, Designer Geckos does not advocate or recommend shipping leopard geckos in extreme temperatures. The risk to the animals is too great and not worth taking. Having said that, our shipments will undoubtedly encounter less than ideal shipping temperatures from time to time and Mother Nature is not 100% predictable, so we need to take appropriate precautions based on time of year etc. Also, it is extremely important to check weather, temps, and storm possibilities at all points including hubs like Memphis and Indy for Fedex and Louisville for UPS for instance.

DG put together an experiment to determine the feasibility of shipping during the summer months to see how the cargo would fare in very warm weather conditions.

Here are the specifics of our study:

- We used the standard 7x7 and 11x11 Styrofoam lined reptile shipping boxes, and packed the boxes exactly as we would if we were to ship actual geckos. The boxes were assembled as always, and two small holes were punched in the sides to allow air flow to the “animals”.

- We used 16oz freezer packs, frozen solid. You must use packs of this size…the small gel packs simply will not work out and will put the animal in danger. Use the 16 oz block, placed inside a Ziploc back in case of leakage. (The added 16oz weight of the heat pack does not change our shipping costs.)

- In the 7x7 box, we put the cold pack at the bottom of the box, placed crumpled paper on top of it so it would not get the deli cup/gecko too cold, and then placed our deli cup on top, sealing the box thoroughly as always and being sure not to cover the air holes punched in the sides.

- In the 11x11 box, we placed the cold pack against one of the corners, placed the deli cup in the opposite corner, and backfilled voids with crumpled paper.

- Inside each deli cup, we placed an accurate LED digital thermometer.

- The boxes were thus assembled and sealed and placed inside a vehicle, with outside weather in the 90 degree range to simulate the worst possible conditions where the boxes are always in very warm conditions for 24 hours (of course it gets cooler at night).

- The last 3 hours of the period, the vehicle was parked in direct sun, with the inside of the vehicle reaching temperatures of 126 degrees.

- At the end of the 24 hour period, the boxes were quickly opened and the temperature of each deli cup was immediately taken upon opening.

- The 7x7 box deli cup was at 80 degrees, and the 11x11 box deli cup was 75 degrees after 24 hours. The cold packs were still cold, though 90% thawed at the time of opening.

Summary: This method proves that this shipping method works well under adverse heat conditions. Our conclusions are that it is imperative to use a 16oz cold pack, that the boxes need to be assembled according to established guidelines, and that the sender needs to take great precautions to obtain weather info, coordinate the shipment carefully with the buyer at the other end, and provide phone numbers of the buyer on the shipping label. We do NOT recommend shipping if there are any doubts at all. These little creatures rely on us for their well being, and we never want to put them in jeopardy. It is also important that you ship when conditions are perfect so there are no delays, as the cold pack is only adequate for a 24 hour period. Watch the weather carefully….if any potential storms are en route, do not ship! Also, mechanical delays do sometimes happen, and you sure don’t want them to happen under extreme temps, so this is also always to be considered as well.

Please feel free to contact us if you ever have any questions or need input on our methods or about this study. We hope it gave you some useful info. Best of luck.
 

eyelids

Bells Rule!
Messages
10,728
Location
Wisconsin
Cool experiment! The only problem is you don't know how cold it got in the boxes... I'm just thinking gecko on ice... Well he'd be thawed out by arrival so... :p

That is a joke btw... I just think for science sake you could have used a thermometer that recorded temps throughout... Obviously not going to be cold enough to freeze the gecko, but it is important info...
 

Designer Geckos

Contributor
Messages
967
Location
Boulder, CO
Yes, we did check that. It never got below 70 in the cups. You need to be sure to insulate the cups from the cold pack with crumpled paper. Geckos can handle cool temps much easier than hot.
 

Wowoklol

New Member
Messages
456
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Thank you for the informative post. Very relevant in light of the recent tragedy here involving one of our members and shipping 2 leos :(. They Key here folks is the Insulation. I'd also like to present a video I stumbled across a few days ago. Tiki Tiki reptiles shows how they package. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9dlq6JwjZs&feature=player_embedded

They ship from Vegas to just about anywhere. No losses. Also advise NO holes in hot weather. The boxes aren't air tight. Holes are better in cold weather when using heat packs. Cold reptiles = sleep, hot reptiles = dead.
 
Last edited:

fl_orchidslave

New Member
Messages
4,074
Location
St. Augustine, FL
Yes! Yikes, CO2.

The cold pack we use is 99% water and 1% polymer to give it a gel consistency, so it is safe, but still it should be placed inside a ziplock in case of leakage.


Exactly! CO2. We use a CO2 tank/container to prep (kill) rodent feeders to freeze for the snakes. If it runs out and the welding shop is closed to get the tank refilled, dry ice is the temporary method to kill the rats and mice.

Didn't want anyone to try using it as a cold pack to ship a gecko! Ray, your method is perfect :) Thanks for making this thread.
 

Tony C

Wayward Frogger
Messages
3,899
Location
Columbia, SC
I never use holes, that defeats the purpose of an insulated box. Thick insulation and the proper temp control packs will do the trick. Forget the commercial boxes with 1/2" foam, you can save money and end up with a better box if you make your own with 1.5" styro from Home Depot.
 

robin

New Member
Messages
12,261
Location
Texas
regardless of cool packs and insulation etc. shipping in weather over 90 degrees you are taking a serious risk. rather safe than sorry i say. i know that temps down here have been in the 100's and it has been unseasonably hot all over. i just wouldn't risk it at all.
 

Designer Geckos

Contributor
Messages
967
Location
Boulder, CO
The 2 holes we placed in the box are tiny...a phillip's head screwdriver hole....just so the box isn't air tight. I wouldn't want to travel cross country in a sealed box. I do agree though the holes must be very small. Our test under 126 degree temps proves those holes had no effect. These animals need to breathe, especially so since they are getting tossed around and are under stress.

While we adequately proved this shipping method works, I can't overemphasize that summer shipping is high risk no matter how well you prepare and how careful you are. My biggest worry in summer is a delay due to mechanical issues, which does happen. Even if the weather looks great an airplane malfunction delays the shipment for an extra day and that may be disastrous.
 
Last edited:

Tony C

Wayward Frogger
Messages
3,899
Location
Columbia, SC
The box isn't air tight to begin with, and even if it was it probably wouldn't matter. The metabolic rate of a reptile or amphibian is nowhere close to that of a mammal, so using yourself as a point of reference for oxygen consumption is not very meaningful.

With proper packing a delay of a day or more should not cause any issues. I have had dart frogs delayed and they still arrived just fine, if a leopard gecko dies under similar conditions then it was not properly packed. I would never actually do it, but I'm absolutely confident that I could pack and ship a leopard gecko via Priority Mail and it would arrive alive. If you (general you, not you specifically Ray) don't have that same level of confidence then you are not packing your animals well enough.
 

robin

New Member
Messages
12,261
Location
Texas
I can't overemphasize that summer shipping is high risk no matter how well you prepare and how careful you are. My biggest worry in summer is a delay due to mechanical issues, which does happen. Even if the weather looks great an airplane malfunction delays the shipment for an extra day and that may be disastrous.

agreed
 

SFgeckos

New Member
Messages
842
Location
CA
Great post and experiment Ray! I applaud your efforts!

On a side note, in reference to geckos tolerating cold temperatures. The year I purchased my original Ray Hines hypos/carrottails (2002 I believe, a few months after Kelli got hers) I wasn't at work when the shipment arrived, but the front office signed for the package and preceded to put the "perishable" box into the freezer in the backroom of the hospital. A few hours later I arrived and after being informed that "you got a perishable package in the freezer this morning" I immediately ran and opened the box to find extremely ice cold geckos. Needless to say, all the geckos survived after warming up a few hours and their descendants live on in my racks to this day =) I've also received a 3-day "lost" delayed package of frozen Dendrobates that I thought for sure were dead, but after warming up they all survived and lived to breed as well.

I always go with the saying "if there is any doubt, DON'T SHIP!"

Jon
 

Designer Geckos

Contributor
Messages
967
Location
Boulder, CO
Great post and experiment Ray! I applaud your efforts!
I always go with the saying "if there is any doubt, DON'T SHIP!"

Jon

Thank you Jon. Just trying to help. I'm glad this thread gave some folks food for thought. Experienced folk know all this stuff but the newbies need to be armed with the proper info. We have not been shipping the last few weeks due to this horrid hot weather we are all having right now. Customers get antsy about it because everyone is always very excited and anxious to get their new geckos, but we do not want to take chances right now....you just need to watch the weather and wait for the right window of opp to arrive when it is cool enough, but still follow sound shipping practices with a cold pack to be on the safe side. We are especially concerned about shipping young juvies in heat, and this time of year we all have lots of those. Waiting for good weather makes sense all the way around so we don't put these little munchkins in any kind of jeopardy.

Thanks all....
 

SFgeckos

New Member
Messages
842
Location
CA
"We are especially concerned about shipping young juvies in heat, and this time of year we all have lots of those. Waiting for good weather makes sense all the way around so we don't put these little munchkins in any kind of jeopardy."

I agree completely!

Another area for hobbyist/breeders to think about related to shipping is the surface area to volume ratio for organisms. Without getting too scientific and making graphs, basically smaller animals have a larger surface area relative to volume compared to larger animals, thus for example- a 10gram juvi leo can heat up faster (or lose heat) at higher rates in comparison to a 50gram adult leopard gecko. This scientifically explains why shipping precautions should be taken regardless of the animal size, but in particular with smaller animals that are more sensitive to environmental changes.

Jon
 

Visit our friends

Top