Eclipse Dilemma

[Neon Aurora]

I have a bit of a dilemma. This season I had a pairing of Tangerine het eclipse x Rainwater albino eclipse. I recently hatched out a patternless stripe, but I can't for the life of me decide if he is eclipse. I'm sort of leaning towards no, but his pattern is throwing me off a bit. He doesn't really look eclipse in the eyes, but that isn't saying a lot. From this pairing, I have one gecko that doesn't have eclipse eyes at all and doesn't even really have an eclipse-like pattern, but that I am 90% sure is eclipse. I could post a picture of the hatchling if anyone thinks they could possibly tell better than I can.

Anyways, the real question. He is either patternless stripe eclipse het rainwater or patternless stripe het rainwater and eclipse. I like him and wanted to pair him eventually to my tangerine stripe het rainwater albino and eclipse. But I realize since I am unsure of whether he is homo eclipse or hetero, I would not have a solid idea on the hatchlings. Obviously this pairing gives many different genotypes, but my concern is with eclipse. If the male is homo eclipse, than the non-eclipse hatchlings would be 100% het eclipse. If he is not, they will be 50% het eclipse.

So what I want to know is if this is worth test breeding. I have a homo eclipse that he could breed with along with the tangerine stripe het eclipse, but it wasn't necessarily something I was looking to do. The reason I want to do the pairing with him and the tangerine stripe het eclipse is because I want to produce more stripes/patternless stripes/reverse stripes. I only managed to produce two female eclipses (bad luck with the odds), one of which I won't breed due to her very short tail, and the other is banded and I wasn't planning to keep around.

So what is the best way to handle this situation? I suppose it wouldn't be terrible to list the hatchlings from that pairing as 50% het eclipse (it would be better to have poss hets that end up being 100% hets as opposed to 100% hets that end up being poss hets), but I would rather just know. Test breeding is an options, but I'm not sure if it is worth it (I would really like to just pair the geckos with the traits I want to proliferate). My third option would be to trash the pairing all together and get a different female for him later on that is homo eclipse and has the traits I want for him. I realize the proposed pairing is already a bit messy because of the number of possible genotypes, so I'm not dead set on doing it yet.

Sorry if this post is messy and longer than it needs to be. I had trouble explaining what was going on in an organized fashion.

 

[acpart]

If I were you I'd do the pairing you want to do and label the offspring 50% het eclipse. For what it's worth, I paired two het eclipses this season and didn't get an eclipse until hatchling #9!

Aliza

 

[Neon Aurora]

Okay, as long as that is an alright thing to do. =)

 

[Camaleonides]

My advice would be to pair both of your geckos as you said and look for a single hatchling with the phenotype/genotype you are looking for. The odds are a little low but this is exactly why a love to work with genetics, I love surprises. Don´t ever give up, the final result will be worthy for sure

 

[Kristi23]

If you're not sure, it's always best to list as poss het. If you list as het and they prove not to be, you'll have a lot of upset people. Also, I would make sure your tangerine het eclipse is non het albino (unless you bought it from a breeder who tested to be sure first). I have found very few breeders who have eclipse or tangerines with no hets (albino).

 

[Neon Aurora]

Okay, will do. And the Tang het eclipse is from Steve Sykes was specifically listed "not het albino", so I imagine she is not. I have to say, though, I have received that warning from a lot of people and am feeling nervous about it even though she was listed that way. I didn't ask if he had test bred her but just trusted the note on her listing. Looking back on it, I probably should have asked specifically. That was two years ago, though, so it is probably too late.

Then again, taking a look, Sykes seems to even now still have a lot of eclipses that are not het albino.

 

[Kristi23]

I did notice that Geckos Etc does sell eclipse that are non het. Hopefully that means they were tested first. I would assume so.

 

[Neon Aurora]

Well, I went ahead and composed an email to see if there are still any records on this particular gecko. Better safe then sorry. I bought her when I was still really new to the breeding world. With what I know now, I would have done more to be totally sure. Back then I just sort of trusted the note. I haven't sold any of the offspring from this pairing yet, so I'll try to find out everything I can before I do. I think my chances are pretty good that everything is okay considering the note on her listing, but I do want to be sure.

I did notice that she produced quite a lot of eggs (something like 14, all fertile) the first season I bred her (as opposed to my definitely first time rainwater that produced a total of 8 eggs or so, only 5 fertile), which made me think she had been bred before.

I'll just see where the email goes.

Oh, and for the record, I wasn't planning on listing the offspring of that future pairing as het eclipse if I wasn't sure. I was just wondering if it was worth test breeding or if it would be better to just list them as possible het. Just want to make sure no one thought I was trying to be dishonest.

 

[Kristi23]

Well, I went ahead and composed an email to see if there are still any records on this particular gecko. Better safe then sorry. I bought her when I was still really new to the breeding world. With what I know now, I would have done more to be totally sure. Back then I just sort of trusted the note. I haven't sold any of the offspring from this pairing yet, so I'll try to find out everything I can before I do. I think my chances are pretty good that everything is okay considering the note on her listing, but I do want to be sure.

I did notice that she produced quite a lot of eggs (something like 14, all fertile) the first season I bred her (as opposed to my definitely first time rainwater that produced a total of 8 eggs or so, only 5 fertile), which made me think she had been bred before.

I'll just see where the email goes.

Oh, and for the record, I wasn't planning on listing the offspring of that future pairing as het eclipse if I wasn't sure. I was just wondering if it was worth test breeding or if it would be better to just list them as possible het. Just want to make sure no one thought I was trying to be dishonest.

I think we've all made that mistake. I know that I used to think that I was buying animals with no hets from breeders because they weren't listed. I only really learned a few years ago that it's usually not the case. I've made plenty of mistakes over the years.

As for the babies, it's really up to you. You can test breed, but it's not a big deal to sell the babies as possible hets the way you mentioned.

 

[Neon Aurora]

Well, despite not inquiring specifically about that when I bought my tang het eclipse, it looks like everything is fine. I got an email back and they were able to look in their records and confirm she is 100% not het for anything except eclipse. The pairing that made her was Eclipse (no hets) x linebred tang (no hets). So we are all in working order here, I am confident that my genes are totally clean. =)

As for this future pairing, I think I will just do the one I want to do and label the offspring as possible het. I am sort of learning towards not homo eclipse with the gecko in question anyways. There isn't a lot of evidence that says he is homo.

 

[Kristi23]

Happy to hear that you were able to find out.