Edna Necropsy (warning: graphic photos)

[KrakenQueen]

Edna's Story

I am not one to leave a mystery unsolved and I really do believe that Edna had either gout or hypercalcemia. I did a necropsy before she was buried with my lime tree in hopes that someone here could figure things out.

To be honest, it looks like a build up of calcium around joints. When I looked at the kidneys they were dark red and black. If you need more photo's I'll see if I have what you're looking for. When I opened up the body cavity itself I noted there was a lot of fluid, what would the reason for this be?

I guess for future references you can save these to your HD.

Thanks again for the help with Edna. I wish things could have gone differently but, unfortunately things don't always go as planned. :/

 

[Khrysty]

That spot on her (I think that's her lungs...?) is really bizarre. I wish I could help you figure out what was wrong with her :/

 

[turbogex]

I will have my wife look at this when she gets home she is a vet tech. They dont do much with reptiles at her work but maybe she will have some ideas.

 

[bjleemkuil]

This is so sad. =( Poor Edna. I'm glad she's in Gecko Paradise now though.

 

[KrakenQueen]

I will have my wife look at this when she gets home she is a vet tech. They dont do much with reptiles at her work but maybe she will have some ideas.

Thank you Turbogex.


Khrysty, could she have had some sort of infection in the lungs? The green spot only showed up a few hours after her passing. She was resting in her humid hide.


Bjleemkuil, it's very sad. :/ What bothers me the most is how over last weekend she was doing SO well, eating and drinking and showing improvement, but went downhill so quickly it even caught me off guard. Reptiles aren't suppose to go from one end of the spectrum to the other as fast as she did

 

[Khrysty]

Khrysty, could she have had some sort of infection in the lungs? The green spot only showed up a few hours after her passing. She was resting in her humid hide.

That's what I was thinking. But I think that's a symptom, and not the cause. Just like the MBD, the darkened kidneys, etc were symptoms. Whatever caused the other issues could have weakened her immune system and made it easier for her to get an infection. And maybe that's what ultimately killed her so suddenly?

 

[KrakenQueen]

Understood. I knew when we got her that there was a possibility of her having more issues than met the eye. It's still hard to deal with.

:/

 

[turbogex]

Usually fluid in the abdomen and chest is due to heart failure. The heart failure could be secondary to any number of things. The only way to find a definative diagnosis is to send tissue samples for biopsy. Other than that, there is only speculation. The picture with the kindneys look normal. There is some color change after death, but all the organs were normal healthy colors. The area in the shoulder looks like a fatty deposit from the picture but that would have been soft and smooth if it was fat. That is all the insite I can give on a necropsy from pictures. Only taking it to a veterinarian could have given actually answers.

 

[KrakenQueen]

Thanks Turbogex.

Unfortunately, she's been buried with my lime. At this point there's no way I can dig her back up without having bugs on her and her having started decomp.

Would the fat deposits have been a sign of something else? They were soft and smooth, but bright white- so I assumed calcium.

 

[turbogex]

Sorry, I was not suggesting you dig her up, I just meant that would have been the only way to definately find an answer.I researched gout and hypercalcemia. Gout really only occurs in herbivores that have a diet too high in protein. Their bodies cannot process all the protein causing gout. Calcium cannot build up like a mass in tissue. The only way to know it is hypercalcemia is to test the blood. Symptoms would have been lethargy, bone weakening, and increased thirst. Kidney stones can also form but not masses in the tissue. The fat deposits you saw just meant she was well fed and cared for. The swelling in the legs looks like pitting edema. If you would have pressed lightly on the limbs you mark would have stayed and very slowly fill back out. It means that there is fluid build up in the tissue. Since you also had the fluid in the body cavity, the primary cause of death probably was heart failure possibly due secondary to some other infection. There are many causes of heart failure and no way to pinpoint exactly what the definate cause of death was. Once the pitting edema starts, there is no way to reverse it, even if you had caught it early enough, supportive care is all you can do help. It might of prolonged her death but it can not be reversed. I hope this can help and sorry again for your loss.

 

[KrakenQueen]

That makes more sense. I feel awful if that were the case though, it's just odd how the fat was building up in such strange places.

Thanks again Turbo, I appreciate the information you've given.

 

[Smidget88]

I am not a vet, but i am a nurse and have had to look at human cadavers before. The reptile organs look exactly like miniatures of our own people organs. I have a few hypothesis if you care to here. The green spot on the lung could be one of two things. A fungal infection that started (sometimes if theres mildew the mold spores get inhaled and colonize in lungs) OR the green spot could be bile from the gall bladder. The gall bladder on a human is close to the lungs, so if the gall bladder exploded or perferated the bile could have stained the lung. You are right to assume gout because of join swelling and deformity however gout isnt somethign that typically causes death. Gout is exacerbated by purines which are found in yeasts and alcohols, and since i do not beleive your gecko for a second had ever been to happy hour its most likely not gout. I think it could have been a calcium toxicity the joints were deformed and all those white build ups def look like calcium deposits. If it feels hard its calcium, if it is soft theres a possibility it was fat. The kidneys work a lot harder when there is too much calcium and can cause renal failure. IT is really hard to say there was a single cause of death here with this gecko, mainly because i picked up severeal problems. My beleif is the poor baby had multi system failures and just couldnt over come it. I think maybe diet, habitat, and just its own natural system could have been causes of death. If the white deposits werent hard it must be fat which i would assume are from wax worms. I really don't think it is actually any way a hunsbandry issue, more of an immune issue. what did you use for a moist hide and how often was it thoroughly cleaned?

 

[KrakenQueen]

I am not a vet, but i am a nurse and have had to look at human cadavers before. The reptile organs look exactly like miniatures of our own people organs. I have a few hypothesis if you care to here. The green spot on the lung could be one of two things. A fungal infection that started (sometimes if theres mildew the mold spores get inhaled and colonize in lungs) OR the green spot could be bile from the gall bladder. The gall bladder on a human is close to the lungs, so if the gall bladder exploded or perferated the bile could have stained the lung. You are right to assume gout because of join swelling and deformity however gout isnt somethign that typically causes death. Gout is exacerbated by purines which are found in yeasts and alcohols, and since i do not beleive your gecko for a second had ever been to happy hour its most likely not gout. I think it could have been a calcium toxicity the joints were deformed and all those white build ups def look like calcium deposits. If it feels hard its calcium, if it is soft theres a possibility it was fat. The kidneys work a lot harder when there is too much calcium and can cause renal failure. IT is really hard to say there was a single cause of death here with this gecko, mainly because i picked up severeal problems. My beleif is the poor baby had multi system failures and just couldnt over come it. I think maybe diet, habitat, and just its own natural system could have been causes of death. If the white deposits werent hard it must be fat which i would assume are from wax worms. I really don't think it is actually any way a hunsbandry issue, more of an immune issue. what did you use for a moist hide and how often was it thoroughly cleaned?

Thank you for your input!

I had been feeding Edna waxies in the beginning because she wouldn't eat anything else, and this was only for about a week. Once her eyes were clear she was able to eat mealworms and crickets. I knew the problems of feeding waxworms could be very detrimental. Now, I don't know exactly what her prior caretaker had been feeding her, or the owner prior to him.

The substance was somewhat soft and easily pliable. It wasn't hard.

I used a clean butter container we had saved and only moist papertowels. I'd clean the hide daily, sometimes every other day. I would switch out the papertowels daily, or every other day as well with fresh ones.

 

[BrilliantEraser]

I think turbogex's explanation makes the best sense. Fluid in the chest cavity made me think congestive heart failure as well. If it is any consolation, I know that you did good by her, and made her last few weeks as happy and comfortable as possible. She was very lucky to come by you. At least she had some happiness in her too-short life.

 

[Smidget88]

I do agree with Turbos idea too of CHF but with all the problems i picked up i think maybe it was just a multi-system fail and there honestly wouldnt have been much you could have done, just take comfort in the fact you did everything to make her happy while she was in your care. losing a pet no matter how great or small never leaves you feeling good. But just know you did your best, some things arent meant to be. Now edna is in that big oasis enjoying all the crickets and waxies and mealies she can muster.

 

[KrakenQueen]

Thanks guys, I seriously appreciate your words. I did as much for her as I could, and I know I did as best as I could. It is difficult to lose an animal, no matter what, but in a case like this where it seems there was no other way but down I am glad she passed on and is no longer in any pain or discomfort.

I can look on the bright side of this, even though I enjoyed the dedicated care I was giving to Edna, I can now focus all of my time to the rest of my zoo-kids.

Again, thank you so much for all the help you have all given me, it means quite a lot!