EMERINE??????

[Wild West Reptile]

Ok, so I've seen a LOT of "emerine's" posted lately and I seriously don't see any green in them (not all, but most). From what I understand, to be considered a true "emerine" they need to have a "greenish" tone to them underneath the orange, but the only colors I'm seeing are mostly tangerine orange color tones. Don't get me wrong, they are BEAUTIFUL, but I don't see the difference between them and some sunglows, SHTCT's, and some other "orange" morphs out there. The only ones I've seen that truly impressed me where a couple of weeks ago, the "limeades" I think they were called? Now those were truly green!!


My question is, what separates them from the other morphs that look exactly the same? The "lineage" or "genetics" which they came from originally??? Because if that's all it is, then I guess I just don't get it. If they don't have any greenish tint to them at all, then I don't think they should be called emerines. That's like me calling a gecko with no bold in it a boldstripe just because it came from boldstripe parents. If it has NO bold striping, it shouldn't be called a bold stripe! But that's what it seems is going on with the emerine morph. Am I wrong?

Now I may be way off on this, since I don't work with these guys, but I welcome anyone who does to clarify this morph for the rest of us who don't understand why they can be called emerine's if they have no green tint to them.

Thanks in advance for your reply's.

 

[Pinky81]

Id be curious to know the answer as well. I think ppl take it both ways...if it came from Emerine parent but no green is seen they still call it a emerine.

But I agree if you don't SEE green why call it a Emerine??

I also ask this due to the fact that my 2012 project is Emerine! But with my male you really can see a very nice green hue.

Great Question

 

[KelliH]

The "green" color on the Emerines is actually the areas on the geckos that start out as lavender (which is as close to blue pigment that we have on leopard geckos) and then get filled in with orange. This "green" is very hard to pickup on a digital image.

On the Bell Albinos, the "green" areas look lavender. That is why I combined the two morphs, to increase the lavender on my Tangerine Bells.

The "green" on some of the Rainwater Emerines does tend to look more green as opposed to lavender. When I label my geckos as "Emerine Bells" or "Emerine Rainwaters" I am doing so more for the bloodline than the actual color.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I can see the green on 3 of the examples above, so I can understand them being labeled as emerine. But why are the ones who don't have the greenish tint called emerines? Or, at least they should be low grade emerines? If I breed shtct's and some have 50-75% carrot tails and one has zero - 10% carrot tail, aren't the ones who exhibit the most carrot tail the higher grade and demand the most money? Why should it be any different with emerines? If I am breeding for a particular trait, whatever trait that may be..."bold", "carrot tail", "bright orange", "striped", "emerine"....shouldn't the top ones be the ones who exhibit the best color and markings? Its just like any other morph, you'll have some misses on what you were breeding for. Some will exhibit whatever trait you are going for and some won't.

Again, if the emerines we are seeing that are bright orange can be labeled and sold as such, even though they aren't exhibiting any visual "green" to them, why are they good examples of the emerine morph? I say sell them as "low grade" emerines or simply call them tangerines or whatever it is they best resemble? I just don't see the why the ones who have no green are being sold for the same money, or more if they are really bright orange, than the ones who truly have some green in them.

Shouldn't the emerine be held to the same standards as all the rest of the morphs? The best examples of the traits your trying to highlight should earn the best money. In the case of the emerine, that trait should be how much green they have in them, especially "extreme emerines"! If it's "extreme" it should really be green! At least that's what I picture. Ok...someone elses turn.

 

[OnlineGeckos]

I think those people calling orange geckos "emerines" are the ones that bought "emerines" from Ron Tremper. Tremper is the one that's selling "extreme emerines" that don't have any greens on them.

So people who forked over big money for them are now calling the offsprings emerines also heh. Vicious cycle.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Like Kelli said, the green doesn't show well in photos whereas it's very evident in person. I have some super hypos that exhibit varying degree of green tint that someone could use in an emerine project, but I don't market them as that. I guess it's a personal choice on my end because I'm not breeding for that trait.

 

[KelliH]

Yeah, I never have understood why the "Extreme Emerines" are the ones with the least green.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Like Kelli said, the green doesn't show well in photos whereas it's very evident in person. I have some super hypos that exhibit varying degree of green tint that someone could use in an emerine project, but I don't market them as that. I guess it's a personal choice on my end because I'm not breeding for that trait.

Then how come you can see green on some of them but not others when they are taken with the same camera? There's no way you can tell me that some of the recent pictures I've seen posted have any green on those bright orange geckos. They simply came from "emerine" parents so they're being called emerines.

I too hatched out a SHTCTB this year that has tons of green in it. The parents aren't from emerine blood at all. Can I call it an emerine? It's very confusing.

The only thing I see on the emerines that differentiates itself from other tangerine morphs is the swirly head pattern. But to me that looks just like a RAPTOR head pattern and that's what I've seen quite a few of them crossed with.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

As you know, line breeding brings out specific traits, better greens produce better greens. Better sunglows produce better sunglows. I haven't noticed a specific pattern to emerines, just a coloration difference. Nice ones are vibrant, lower quality ones can look washed out even with a good amount of green. They still just don't photograph well. A lot of reptiles are like that, such as a suriname boa, for example.

ps- maybe the best way for you to compare them would be to go to a show, take pics, then compare the differences between what you saw in person vs what you see in your photos.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Yeah, I never have understood why the "Extreme Emerines" are the ones with the least green.

Would that be an "extreme tangerine" with varying amounts of green?

 

[Wild West Reptile]

ps- maybe the best way for you to compare them would be to go to a show, take pics, then compare the differences between what you saw in person vs what you see in your photos.

The last show I was at, there was a breeder with tons of the green guys and honestly, the green show up better in his photos than in person.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

No offense, but the whole "extreme emerine" and "emerine" morph reeks of Tremper marketing. What's the difference between a morph that shows green once every few geckos than a galaxy where it may show the "sun" once in a great while?

With that being said, I think both morphs are beautiful geckos but I think they shouldn't be marketed as anything other than what they really are.

 

[KelliH]

No offense, but the whole "extreme emerine" and "emerine" morph reeks of Tremper marketing. What's the difference between a morph that shows green once every few geckos than a galaxy where it may show the "sun" once in a great while?

With that being said, I think both morphs are beautiful geckos but I think they shouldn't be marketed as anything other than what they really are.

I understand your point and do agree 100%. I see the Emerines as being different from say, the Galaxy/SS Eclipse debacle, because I believe that Emerine is the name of a morph that comes out of a specific bloodline, not just any gecko that shows the green color. For example, I have been producing Tangerines with green on them for years and years and some of them are way greener than any Emerine I have ever seen. However, that does not mean they ARE Emerines.

Another thing to point out is that the name Emerine was given to those specific geckos by Ron, and marketed as such. Once that happens as it did in this case, we're kind of stuck with the name. :toilet:

 

[Matt K]

I see the Emerine term as a trait, not a blood line, though you could have a blood line that carries an emerine trait like anything else. Tremper HAD green leopards at one point, but does not seem to now and he crosses something to get this "Extreme Emerine" which is really lame, though it does produce some really really nice geckos (in the show off leos section of this forum Porkchop something posted photos of some beauties, though I would not sell one as an Emerine if I owned one personally). So in essence, it seems that the term "Emerine" is destined to completely lose its meaning despite being what one would assume is a visual trait. What Kelli has had in the past to me looked like Electric tangerines, etc., which is how they were labeled, but had the Emerine trait because she has had some that had some green as anything gets on them. I know AT TIMES green does not photo well, but it does photo, and to see none at all on a posted image seems like it has none worth mentioning in person.

As an aside, most people post photos that are totally washed out from too much light or overexposed, imo. I underexpose my photos and the colors look most realistic when compared to the gecko in person. Direct sunlight = bad, without a filter of some sort.

So in short, Kelli has the indisputable point- you have to know where the genes come from somehow and the lineage is the only way to know where to get them. Others will label thiers either or and that's just the way it will go until someone starts the specificity of 'green Emerines'. That being said, I only would buy an evidently green Emerine or at least one whose parents were if its not itself. That an not put any stock in Tremper terminology, regardless....

Kinda like calling a gecko a raptor when it is only a ptor, also in my opinion only.....

 

[KelliH]

\

Kinda like calling a gecko a raptor when it is only a ptor, also in my opinion only.....

I LOL'ed!

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I know AT TIMES green does not photo well, but it does photo, and to see none at all on a posted image seems like it has none worth mentioning in person.

I have to agree. Green shows up in plenty of photos. Maybe not perfectly true to how it is in person, but when a really nice picture is taken by someone who obviously knows how to take photos and is using a nice camera, and there's no green.......it doesn't take a genius to look at that gecko and see there is no green present in person or not. Those should not be labeled as "emerine's", they should be labeled as "from emerine parents", but ONLY IF the parents actually had visual green in my humble fricking opinion. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Matt K]

Thanks for seeing the humorous sarcasm Kelli (which I meant) and not thinking I was being an a$$ (which I didn't mean but alot of people read into my posts)....

 

[jntn]

I have to agree. Green shows up in plenty of photos. Maybe not perfectly true to how it is in person, but when a really nice picture is taken by someone who obviously knows how to take photos and is using a nice camera, and there's no green.......it doesn't take a genius to look at that gecko and see there is no green present in person or not. Those should not be labeled as "emerine's", they should be labeled as "from emerine parents", but ONLY IF the parents actually had visual green in my humble fricking opinion. :main_thumbsup:

This photo was taken with flash

This one without flash

 

[UnicornSpirit]

Yeah, I never have understood why the "Extreme Emerines" are the ones with the least green.

Because EXTREME magically makes a product sound sooo much more awesome. It could sell a gecko which may otherwise show very little green? Thus, it's a marketing gimmick? idk just a thought. Or maybe it's just extreme because of it's lineage.