Enigma and Trempers

[malt_geckos]

So, as far as I know, (atleast I think I do) an Enigma is from Mark Bells collection. So, is a regular enigma compatable with a tremper whatever? I know the Bell and Tremper albinos don't work together because the genes are on different loci..or whatever. But what about pairing a regular enigma with a regular tremper, or even a tremper albino. I know the offspring would be het tremper and het bell (because most enigmas are het bell). What about crossing the two double het offspring together? Also, isn't enigma dominant? Thanks!

 

[yellermelon]

few quick answers,
Enigma is considered dominant
you say tremper and tremper albino..they are one in the same
yes tremper genes work with enigma. I know Ive seen quite a few het trempors, and het raptors. And I believe Alberto had a trempor enigma pictured on here. Im sure others have tremper enigmas right now also.

 

[Nigel4less]

www.geckosetc.com Steve Sykes has some beautiful Tremper Enigmas to see for yourself

 

[malt_geckos]

You know, I go on his website everyother day atleast to look at his leos, and I never noticed that those top few enigmas where Tremper. lol

 

[eyelids]

Something I have noticed from the few pics online is that Tremper Enigmas don't seem to act at all like Bell Enigmas as far as the ocular albino theory... That makes Enigmas even more of an Enigma!

BTW, I now think that weird "Albino Enigma" at NARBC Tinley '06 was a double homozygous Tremper Bell Enigma... Considering how many Enigmas were het Tremper from the start makes it totally possible...

Photographed by Shanti...

 

[yellermelon]

The orange head coloration seems more common with the tremps right now.

 

[Nigel4less]

You know, I go on his website everyother day atleast to look at his leos, and I never noticed that those top few enigmas where Tremper. lol

Yeah plus they are all het RAPTOR woohoo!!! RAPTOR Enigmas are gonna rock!! :main_yes:

 

[dprince]

Enigmas came from the Bell's collection..........not necessarily the Bell albino. The enigma gene is totally a random mutation, and the Bells don't even know what group it came out of. Now, when people bred their enigmas to different morphs, some of the enigmas turned out to be het bell or het tremper (or het other things).......but it was a guess until proven. Some of them have still not been proven out.

 

[supperl]

It´s like the one selling Bell Blazing Blizzards^^ It comes from Marc but has nothing to do with the Bell Albino^^

 

[malt_geckos]

Hmmm...so was there bad record keeping going on? because I would think that he would have some records of who in his collection produced the Enigma if he was keeping records....maybe he doesn't want to tell anyone how it came to be? Just a theory. Yeah, I want to make a DB and a Enigma cross...I think that would be neat.

 

[ataber]

lol that would be a good theory but the bells collection consists of at least several hundred breeders(probably thousands). For the modest breeder its more practical to keep good records but when you are dealing on the scale that bell (and tremper as well) is it becomes immensely tough and counter-productive b/c their wholsesale customers could care less.

 

[supperl]

I think recordings will only be made at Geckos for linebreeding or special morphs. Normaly Big breeders with so many Leos won´t record every single comon Alibno they hatch. For example when you have hundrets of Bell Albino breeders and produce maybe thousands a year for wholesale why would you record every single Albino? It´s all the same and doesn´t matter which their parents are. And I think thats where the Enigma came from. Someone saw a little Gecko that had nothing from what he should be and that was not normal^^ and that brings us the Enigma.

 

[malt_geckos]

Gosh darn it. lol...i still like my theory. That's true though about the record keeping being a hassle...but it's too bad that a record wasn't kept to find out just what pairing caused this morph....I know this is really offtopic, but howcome no one seems to do much with the LV albino? I'd think that there may be some strange mutation just waiting to erupt from that line, but no one seems to work with it anymore...or maybe I am just not seeing it. The only ones I ever see are patternless LVAs and Mack Snow LVAs....What's the deal with that?

 

[miamimike]

Dan Lubinsky at Hot Geckos and Jeremy Letkey from Letkey's Leos are doing some work with rainwaters (Las Vegas)...as are a few others on here I am sure....but those two I know first hand, have nice collections.

 

[okapi]

Gosh darn it. lol...i still like my theory. That's true though about the record keeping being a hassle...but it's too bad that a record wasn't kept to find out just what pairing caused this morph....I know this is really offtopic, but howcome no one seems to do much with the LV albino? I'd think that there may be some strange mutation just waiting to erupt from that line, but no one seems to work with it anymore...or maybe I am just not seeing it. The only ones I ever see are patternless LVAs and Mack Snow LVAs....What's the deal with that?

I dont want to sound mean, but your theory doesnt really matter, because the enigma was a random mutation. They could breed the pair that produced the enigma over and over again and never produce another enigma from that pairing. Since enigmas are a dominant trait that randomly popped out of a 'normal' pairing, we know that it is a new mutation that can only be reproduced by enigma breedings.

Plenty of people breed rainwater albinos, just look at VMSherp, AlexHue, Jeremy Letkey, Hot geckos, Golden Gate Geckos, and Crested Gecko.
The only reason that new mutations are coming out of Ron Tremper's and Mark Bell's collections is because they breed thousands and thousands per year. It is just luck of the draw that 2 larger populations would produce more mutations than several smaller populations spread out over several people's collections. It is completely random when and where the next new mutation will take place.

Tremper albinos are more famous because they are the oldest and most bred albino line. It also doesnt hurt that most pet stores are supplied by RT and that RT releases albinos of every morph that he breeds.

Bell albinos are the youngest form of albino, and everyone likes their eyes and their burgandy and lavander body colorations. It also doesnt hurt that people like Kelli crossed bell albinos with other morphs, producing some amazing bells with alot of color.

Las Vegas albinos are usually the first albinos to be crossed with morphs (examples being the patternless albinos, blazing blizzards, and albino mack snows). Maybe the only reason that they are not as famous, is because they are not mass produced by their discoverer like the other two strains?

 

[malt_geckos]

I know that the enigma was a random mutation and I am aware that a mutation can't be made. I just think it would be cool to know what animals produced the first enigma. Also, I was being goofy with the theory thing. I was hoping people wouldn't take it too seriously.

I also think that the rw albino lines aren't that famous because they are bred at smaller levels. What ever happened to the guy that discovered the line?

 

[Albey]

I also think that the rw albino lines aren't that famous because they are bred at smaller levels. What ever happened to the guy that discovered the line?

If there were any justice in the world he would be in jail. :main_thumbsup:

 

[yellermelon]

once again, Im scared to ask............

 

[trizzypballr]

I know we are not allowed to talk down on anyone here, so Im guessing someone telling the Rainwater story would be a no no, but someone would be allowed to simply post a link to the story somewhere else correct? I am kind of curious to hear it also, heard he did some bad things but never really heard exactly what

 

[malt_geckos]

Ummmm, I want to know what happened now! Can someone post a link pretty PLEASE!!?