Enigma+MS patternless albino

[Lottiz]

I just have to ask what I can expect from Enigma het bell+mack snow patternless Tremper albino.

25% mack snow het patternless Tremper albino (50% poss. het bell)
25% mack snow Enigma het patterbless Tremper albino (50% poss. het bell)
25% normal het patternless Tremper albino (50% poss. het bell)
25% Enigma het patternless Tremper albino (50% poss. het bell)


????

/Lottiz

 

[paulnj]

You are apsolutely correct

 

[supperl]

If Enigma is a dominant trait and your could be the homozygot form you could get only Enigmas right? I mean thats possible or am I wrong?

 

[Lottiz]

No...normal (read mack snow here)i dominant too, and them it will be 50/50 ?

 

[supperl]

Mack Snow is a Co-Dominant Trait
that means: MS is the het form and MSS the homozygot form

When Enigma is, as often told by many ppl, a dominant trait you won´t see a difference between a heterzygot and an homozygot Enigma.

But the question is if you Enigma is a het or he homo Enigma.

 

[Lottiz]

My male is het bell and my female is a bell enigma. But this pairing is about my male het bell + female ms patternless tremper albino.

(I know mack snow is co-dom )

 

[Lottiz]

You are apsolutely correct

Thank you

/L

 

[supperl]

Yeah but if your Enigma het Bell male would be the homozygot form of Enigma (when Enigma is a Dominant trait which would mean het and homo looks same) you would get every hatchling an Enigma. If you Enigma is just the het from of Enigma, which you can´t tell as in dominat traits het and homo looks same you would not get a Enigma each hatchling you understand what I mean?

I´ve a link about it:
http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/dominant.html

The question is het or homo which can be proven.

I´m telling this on the basis of what I´ve understood the Enigma is. As many told it is dominant I´m right if they are all wrong me too^^

 

[Lottiz]

I understand what you mean. But if you get a very usual pairing between a normal (dominant/homo) and a mack snow you will get 50% normal and 50% (normal) mack snow.
If you ust switch place with normal and Enigma ( and they got the same dominant genetics) you will have 50% mack snow and 50% Enigma. But, if you are right about 100% enigma it will be 50% mack snow enigma and 50% enigma (all 100% het patternless tremper albino, 50% poss. het bell)?

/L

 

[Kotsay1414]

My guess is since the Enigma is het Bell, it is a heterozygous Enigma. I only say this because to be het Bell, the pairing was probably Enigma x Bell.

supperl - Great catch on the Hetero/Homo Enigma... It seems not too many people take that scenario into account

 

[dprince]

But if the tremper and bell meet, then wouldn't you get a normal that was het for both?

 

[Kotsay1414]

But if the tremper and bell meet, then wouldn't you get a normal that was het for both?

Since the Mack is a Patternless Albino and the Enigma is het Bell... there is a 50% chance it will be het for both.

 

[supperl]

Yeah it will mostlikely be that the Enigma het bell is hetero and not homo but their is a Chance it is an homo one^^.

For Example if it´s from pairing a Enigma het Bell with an Enigma Bell or so.



QUOTE: will be 50% mack snow enigma and 50% enigma (all 100% het patternless tremper albino, 50% poss. het bell)?

Yeah if Enigma is the homo form and not the hetero what would be better for you it would cause 100% Enigmas.

Would love to have a homo Enigma male^^

 

[Lottiz]

-Thanks! This is very, very interesting info.
This male will mate Bells Trempers, SH, Mack snow and more, so I will probably find out if it's homo or not.

/Lottiz

 

[Kotsay1414]

-Thanks! This is very, very interesting info.
This male will mate Bells Trempers, SH, Mack snow and more, so I will probably find out if it's homo or not.

/Lottiz

Very nice! I can't wait to see results!

 

[ThunderGekko]

I wouldn't mix the 2 albino strains...

You will never know wich offspring is het. Bell....
I think you can better keep the lines pure....

But that are just my idea's about it....

 

[Lottiz]

Of course I can mix it! Why not?? That's how enigma raptors will be created in the first place. All enigmas come from Bell strains from the very beginning, but out crosses with other strains (even other albino strains) is very interesting. Maybe F1's is interesting just for breeders but next generation will be very interesting for all. I think we can't understand what the enigma gene can bring us yet, and we have to try it out
I know I can't tell who is the heterozygot for Bell and who isn't, but 50% poss. het Bell albino will do as a description so people don't think they are given a guarantee for bell hets here.

:main_rolleyes: Maybe 50% not poss het Bell albino is better

 

[Sandra]

I would do as ThunderGekko says and not cross two different albino strains. It's only a suggestion, but if you want to get Tremper albinos from Bell albinos I would do the following:

First, breed the enigma het Bell to a gecko that you know it isn't het for any albino strains. All the offspring would be considered 50% possible het Bell.

Then breed the enigmas to homozygous Bell albinos, what would give you:
If the enigma is het Bell: 50% Bells and 50% het Bells
If the enigma isn't het Bell: 100% het Bells

This way you will be sure of what are the genetics of both the first and second generation.

After doing this, you can start crossing the enigmas from the first generation that turned out not to be het Bell with other albino strains. As you can see, doing things the right way would take a good amount of time.

Of course you can just breed them directly with Tremper albinos and save some time, but then you could be creating double hets for different strains of albinism which is less than desirable.

 

[dprince]

Of course I can mix it! Why not?? That's how enigma raptors will be created in the first place. All enigmas come from Bell strains from the very beginning, but out crosses with other strains (even other albino strains) is very interesting. Maybe F1's is interesting just for breeders but next generation will be very interesting for all. I think we can't understand what the enigma gene can bring us yet, and we have to try it out
I know I can't tell who is the heterozygot for Bell and who isn't, but 50% poss. het Bell albino will do as a description so people don't think they are given a guarantee for bell hets here.

:main_rolleyes: Maybe 50% not poss het Bell albino is better

Hey Lottiz,

Actually, the Enigmas *came* from Mark and Kim Bell and their stock, not necessarily from the Bell strain of Albino. In all actuality, it is something (as I understand it) that they just kind of noticed in some of their geckos - they themselves are not sure where the mutation occured, or out of what morph.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[Lottiz]

OK, thanks.