Every1's Favorite, Tangerine Question

[vanewt]

Hello Everyone,

I have done a lot of research over the last several months and I'm still confused by some of the Tangerine morphs. (Read a number of posts on this site and others) I get that Tangelos and Sunglows are about the same thing - but what is the difference between Sunglows, Tangerine Trempers and APTORs. In the pictures the patterns vary on them and I'm confused of what the differences are. On top of that, to make an APTOR/RAPTOR it was my understanding that one needed to use the reverse stripe-stripe jeans to create it, but it looks like a lot of breeders use SHTCTB's in their programs which has the hypo gene. How can you tell a SHTCTB is albino, is it their tail? I have two cases below that you could possibly help me on as well.

Thank you in advance.

This is a SHTCTB het tremper. What makes him not a Sunglow or is he one? My Daughter named him Beefaroni .





This is the other one. I was told it is a Tangerine Tremper 66% het RAPTOR. Both parents were Tangerine Trempers 100% het RAPTOR. This appears to be an APTOR to me, but here's my quandary.

 

[DragonGecko]

He isnt a sunglow because he isnt albino. A sunglow is pretty much a shtctb tremper albino

 

[GexPex]

Sunglow=Super Hypo Tangerine Tremper Albino. Usually you can tell from the eyes. Yours looks to have normal, non-albino eyes, so I'd say SHTCTB het Tremper (though the het depends on genetics...won't be able to tell from just looking at it, and I'm sure you already know that, but just need to state it lol)

Tangerine Tremper= "Normal" Tremper Albino that has more orange than the usual Tremper. The tangerine in it is line-bred...whereas Tremper albino is recessive. So if you were to breed this to a normal with a yellow background, you may or may not get tangerines to show up in the offspring. Offspring would then be het Tremper.

APTOR= Sure, they look similar to Sunglows at first, but you have to consider genetics on these guys, as well. They are "Tremper Albino Patternless Orange" geckos. Pretty much a RAPTOR without the eclipse eyes. Most are het eclipse.

SHTCT(B)= Same as the sunglow, but without the Tremper albino gene. Usually you can tell it's not albino by the presence of black spots... on the tail if it's a SHTCTB like yours. A sure way to tell would be the eyes.

As for APTOR/RAPTORs with pattern on the back, I personally don't fully understand this either. Hopefully someone else will chime in on this. And I don't mind if someone makes changes or expands on my explanations lol...I'm still somewhat in the morph-learning stages.

Love your geckos, though, especially your SHTCTB.

 

[vanewt]

Thanks GexPex, I appreciate the break downs. I too would like to see if anyone else can elaborate on the difference between the APTOR and Tangerine Tremper. With the second having a different pattern than the normal Tremper, it makes me wonder. With it being het RAPTOR, logically it would have the eclipse gene making it an APTOR, but ???

 

[LepoInc]

Tangerine Tremper is a Tremper with tangerine colors; no hypo effect. Sunglow is an albino SHTCTB. SHTCTB is a Super Hypo with Tangerine color and a "bald" head. aptor is in fact the RS-S mix without the eclipse gene (Hence no "Red-eye" part of RAPTOR). A lot of people call an eclipse Tremper RAPTORS or really say "het Raptor" because it you have the polygenic traits of RS-S and the genes for Tremper and eclipse, then you'd get your RAPTOR. Either way, most of it is genetics. That's the differences.

Sent via Tapatalk whilst caring for Eublepharis macularis'

 

[vanewt]

Thanks LepoInc. So would you consider the second one an APTOR since she does not have the traditional Tremper pattern and carries all the RAPTOR genes?

 

[LepoInc]

No, Tremper is the albino line, so its a Tremper no matter what. Its not an APTOR unless it has the Reverse Strip-Strip lineage. Its a tangerine tremper

Sent via Tapatalk whilst caring for Eublepharis macularis'

 

[LepoInc]

But I'm not the best at Stripes so it could be considered an Aptor. We will let someone else determine that

Sent via Tapatalk whilst caring for Eublepharis macularis'

 

[acpart]

The APTOR question is an interesting one. Technically a true APTOR (and RAPTOR) would be a patternless stripe. At the most, it should have a very faint beige striping that's visible. Here's what makes it confusing:
--some "patternless stripes" get more spotted as they age
--some people are now selling "striped (R)APTORS" and "banded (R)APTORS" which usually means that they have a tangerine Tremper (with ruby or snake eyes in the case of the RAPTOR) that has a pattern. This seems to happen more often with the RAPTOR than the APTOR

A few more notes:
--If the gecko hatches with bands, in my opinion there's no way it can be a RAPTOR or an APTOR, but people still sometimes label them that way
--the (R)APTOR genes, as you mentioned, include a stripe/reverse stripe combination which produces a patternless appearance. Be aware that geckos that have the stripe gene can produce anything on the stripe spectrum including: aberrant (broken bands in body or tail but not both), jungle, stripe, reverse stripe, patternless stripe
--among my own hatchlings I have decided that they are "patternless stripes" if they have very little black markings when they hatch (i.e. maybe one or two black patches on the sides). Recently I hatched a non-albino gecko that was absolutely patternless --no black markings anywhere on the body. It may lead me to redefine my parameters
--I would call the second gecko in your picture a "jungle Tremper albino" which may also be a tangerine if that color develops as it matures.

I hope this is helpful.

Aliza

 

[Fencer04]

I'm definitely guilty of listing banded Tremper Eclipse geckos as RAPTORs. The only reason I do it is that it seems that most other listings I see say that and I don't want people to think the animals are different. I've even had people email me trying to correct me about a listing that said Tremper Eclipse.

It is confusing and people have started using RAPTOR as any animal that is Tremper and Eclipse.